Savage Love
I loved my boyfriend's kinky fantasies when we started dating, but now they're hurting my feelings. Is it wrong to want him to stop?
By Dan Savage
I really need some help and comfort. I am a straight twenty-five-year-old woman, and I've been dating my boyfriend for four years. I have never been the romantic type, until I met him. At the beginning, we were purely sexual. We love role-playing, and we always came up with erotic fantasies of me being fucked and used by multiple men, or some fantasy where others were involved. It was hot to me until I fell in love with him. Now the only thing that turns me on is him.
Even though he says he loves me, I cannot say he gets turned on by thinking of only me. We still continue these fantasies, but lately I'm seeing that every single time we are intimate, he always talks about things he wants other men (and women) to do to me or what he wants to do with others while I'm around. He never talks about a hot fantasy that involves only him and me. I drew the line when he started bringing my best friend into our role-playing. When I told him I would prefer if he not bring her into it, he ignored me and talked about her anyway. The last time I brought it up, he said he won't tell me his fantasies anymore and that he'll just tell me what I want to hear. He also said that by asking him to stop thinking of others, I am demeaning him and his sexuality.
I have done everything I can to please him. I have done things sexually that I swore I would never do because I trusted him. I guess my question is, am I demeaning him when I ask him to not bring up others in our role-playing every time we're intimate? It wouldn't bother me if it were once in a while. I wind up feeling unattractive and never good enough. What can I do to make him want only me?
— Not Good Enough
Nothing.
He's never gonna want just you and only you, NGE. All that crazy, groupy, kinky shit that turned him on when you first got together — the shit that turned you on before you fell in love with him — still turns him on and will always turn him on.
Now, I know you're not doing it on purpose, NGE, and this is just how you feel, and feelings are sacrosanct li'l mysteries and there's nothing you can do about them, but I've never understood people who are up for anything with someone they're into — dirty talk, crazy sex, groups (real or imagined) — up until the moment they fall in love with that person.
Um... shouldn't falling in love, and the deepening feelings of trust and security that go along with that, open a couple up to new possibilities, new horizons, new sexual adventures?
And if falling in love with someone means the end of sexual adventure and fantasy and role-play — if falling in love means previously acceptable fantasies wind up on your partner's no-fly list — isn't that a huge disincentive to fall in love?
That said, NGE, your boyfriend should, at the very least, mix it the fuck up. Even if you were into groups — or still into groups, or still into thoughts of groups — hearing about groups each and every time you fuck would get pretty fucking tedious after four fucking years. And pressing ahead with annoying fantasies about specific people — your best friend, your mom, your boss — after you've asked him to stop is an asshole move. If he needs dirty talk to get off, he should find new dirty scenarios to explore, including some that involve you and only you, save the group fantasies for "once in a while," and leave your best friend out of it.
As for feeling unattractive, you should make him aware of your insecurities — if you haven't already — and he should be considerate enough to come through with regular reassurances about your attractiveness, his feelings for you, how hot he thinks your body is, etc., etc.
Finally, NGE, I want to emphasize again that there's nothing you can do to make him want you and only you. He is who he is, he's turned on by what turns him on, and you knew that when you fell in love with him. You have neither the right nor the power to reach into his erotic imagination and yank out the bits that conflict with your ideas of what sex is or should be when two people are in love.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that your attitude is demeaning, though. It's more delusional, perhaps, with a sprinkling of irrational jimmies. But not demeaning.
I am a twenty-one-year-old male in a loving and committed relationship. The sex is great; the evenings together are great. It's a perfectly happy relationship except for this one thing: I can't get enough change. I want to be having sex with someone else. One girl is never going to be enough to make me happy.
I have asked her about the possibility of having a threesome. She said she would never go for that, not MMF or FFM, and she is utterly against it and always will be. But I NEED more. Sad fact. What do I do?
— Coming Up More
You could stick it out, I suppose, in the hopes that true love has the opposite effect on your girlfriend than it did on NGE here, i.e., that once your girlfriend is crazy for you, CUM, she'll want to fuck shitloads of other people and she'll give you the go-ahead to do the same. The odds of that happening, however, are close enough to nonexistent that I would be stripped of my professional accreditation if I advised you to live in hope.
Look, CUM, you're twenty-one and you're not ready to settle down — or settle for one person — not yet anyway, maybe not ever. However lovely this girl is, however pleasant your evenings together are, you're not sexually compatible. There would be fewer divorces and less heartbreak if people were encouraged to view sexual incompatibility as the dealbreaker it inevitably becomes over time.
Dump the nice girl, be single, fuck around, and keep your eyes peeled for a girl who wants what you want, change and all.
My friend — I swear, I actually mean my friend — has been "notdating" his "notboyfriend" since August. They see each other on an almost daily basis and have even had a conversation about exclusivity. The "notboyfriend" won't fuck my friend! What's even weirder is that they started out as fuck buddies and then didn't speak for a year before they started dating.
What should my friend do? He would like to have sex with the "notboyfriend" since it was awesome the first run.
— Concerned Lesbian
It's possible that your friend's notboyfriend seroconverted sometime after their fuck-buddy arrangement expired and before they started dating, and the notboyfriend wants to disclose his new HIV status before they start fucking again and is having a hard time working up the Hooksexup.
Or it could be that your friend's notboyfriend isn't into your friend sexually but depends on his emotional support and doesn't want to have to share him, or compete for his nonsexual attentions, with a real, live, honest-to-God boyfriend.
Here's what your friend should do: tell the notboyfriend that, while he values the emotional intimacy they share, he's looking for sexual intimacy, too. If there's some reason why they're not fucking, he wants to know what it is. If there's no reason, he wants to start fucking. Your friend needs to make it clear that there will be no "exclusivity" — and no more "notdating" — until they're notnotfucking.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Commentarium (14 Comments)
Is it just me or does the first boyfriend come off as a bit selfish, defensive and manipulative. i had a long term (4 years) relationship with a man who could be characterized by all those descriptors, especially in our sex life, and I felt constantly subjugated and like I was always wrong, no matter what the situation. I may be biased, but still... you're not always wrong, NGU! You shouldn't have to say you're sorry for wanting to feel sexually appreciated and desired!,
Its not just you but its not just the boyfriend either. This chick is delusional. What does she need to learn/hear/feel/see that tells her to walk the fuck away?
I have to agree, people do have the right to change their sexual desires, and it seems like he doesn't really care about what her fantasies are at all. If she is now craving a more intimate experience, and her boyfriend is unwilling to give it to her, I say move on.
Being in love is not the same as being delusional, or if it is, then it's the perfectly acceptable kind of delusion that most people are actually willingly looking to experience.
Look. The guy is all about pleasing himself; he likes the part you play in his fantasies, but he won't do for you what you do for him. You're not getting out of this one unhurt either way, so I say, if he still won't show you that he cares or respects your feelings, then be outta there. Do yourself that favor.
I basically agree with Dan's advice to NGE, but I'd add that the boyfriend does apparently want only to be with NGE -- he's not bringing additional, live humans into the bedroom, nor does it seem that he's screwing around on the side. A fantasy about multiple sexual partners is not that same thing as having multiple sexual partners or, indeed, even wanting multiple sexual partners. For a hypothetical example, I can fantasize about sex with Angelina Jolie, but that doesn't mean I'd want to do so in real life or that I don't want to be exclusively with my wife.
I'm a dude and I didn't like the advise to NGE either. It kind of treats people like toasters- as though abstract logic about love and feelings don't have intrinsic limits based on their natural content and bonding purposes. However, I don't think his reasoning is that bad given the context. I think his logic proves too much- that the kinkiness view left something to be desired to begin with. When you fall in love the woman BECOMES the fantasy. My wife becomes a goddess every time we hit it, not because I imagine her as one, but because she loves me and my brain and body chemistry is designed to magnify the bonding experience of sex. So if I love her, when I'm at it, I feel that magnified X times by the hormones rushing through my body. If the point of our love is committed, sacrificial, hopeful, companionship, why would I want sex to 'DO' something else? Love doesn't make fantasy possible, it is the fantasy, and when it isn't enough, then love may not be what we're talking about.
We have to remember that we're only hearing one side of the story, NGE's side to be exact, so the impressions of the BF being "selfish, defensive and manipulative" have to be taken with NaCl. The other important thing is that there seems to have only been dirty talk, never any actual multi-partnering, or even the request for such, in FOUR YEARS! If he's still with you, it's because he's into you, and you ARE enough. I know many people who would be thrilled that just talking about others during sessions was enough, as opposed to, you know, actually having him fuck other people. This, I doubt, is actually making you feel any better. But the real question is, after all this time, do you think he'd cheat on you? Do you trust him? Isn't that the issue? Not that he has these fantasies, but that you're scared he wants them to come true? I believe that if he's been around this long, he's in it for the long haul. And if he really wanted to bang your friend, it would be the LAST fantasy he'd bring up in the bedroom. The fact that he's willing to share (and not act on) his dirty talk means that you should trust in the four years you've had unless he does something other than fail to proportion the smut in your favor. Relax, and enjoy your BF!
And BF--let your awesome GF know it's just talk, and that you love her!
Dan's advice to NGE is rude as shit.
Some people's tastes in bed change as their relationships evolve; some don't. The point is that if you're in a good relationship, you should have be reasonably accommodating of your partner's desires.
NGE said that she doesn't mind if the group-sex-talk continues now and then, but that her desires have changed and she'd like something different now and then. And NGE's boyfriend won't give her the fantasy she craves - sex where they focus only on each other and their intimacy - at all. When she asked for it, he instead went passive-aggressive and said, "I'll never tell you about my fantasies again and only tell you what you want to hear" in an attempt to make her feel guilty for asking for what she wanted.
There's nothing wrong with what he wants, but she's not acting irrational and delusional for asking for him to do something different once in a while, and she's not demeaning his sexuality by asserting her own. Her boyfriend is just a fucking asshole.
And it's a douchebag move for him to include someone in his fantasies that clearly violates her comfort zone, and to then ignore her when she said she wanted it to stop.
nic, you really really remind me of my boyfriend and it makes me super happy that i'm in my own shoes and not in NGE's!
NGE: Don't bum his trip in the act. When you're naked and he's laying his best fuck-talk on you, he's pretty vulnerable, and it's way to easy to humilliate him, because, well, objectively what he's saying to you is kinda cheezy. It's like pointing at his erection and giggling. Not good. It's a bit immature of him to go emo on you like that, but maybe you can appreciate why. When you aren't naked, and when he's not laying his best fuck-talk on you, reassure him that his fantasies still get you wet down there. Tell him that bringing people that you actually know into the bedroom squicks you a little. Tell him you'd prefer to take a walk with him and pick out a few strangers for your next imaginary orgy. Then, tell him that you'd like to introduce some fantasies that you've been having, and ask if it would be cool to take turns. Sometimes he leads the fuck talk, sometimes you do. His can be about you and him and the dallas cowboys cheerleaders. Yours can be about him fucking you against the wall in a dimly lit bar with people close enough to catch you if you aren't careful, or whatever floats your boat. You do need to find out if he expects or intends to bring actual others into your sex life eventually, and if so, sort out how you feel about that.
Ya learn something new eevyrady. It's true I guess!
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