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The Bedroom Interview with Stephen Malkmus


Boise, Idaho may not be the most bustling metropolis, but even so, when forty-one-year-old Tom Kraemer told his friend Bob Pagani that he spent a recent rainy weekend "just hanging out at the grocery store," Bob decided it was time for his buddy to get a life. He loaned Tom his computer and a copy of SuperGoo, a program that lets you create faces from a virtual library of various facial features. By the next day, Tom was a changed man, a man with a mission, a man with a life (though some may beg to differ). Within a few hours, he had created a head shot of his ideal woman an imaginary woman and immediately fell in love. Now, with the help of Bob and Bob's website (www.crankymediaguy.com), the two are on a quest to find, as Tom lovingly refers to her, "that girl." After talking with Tom, one is inspired by his blind faith, his unbridled passion, his relentless conviction and his willingness to blow thousands of dollars on cross-country trips just to meet women who look a little like That Girl. But is his love too good to be true? Lorelei Sharkey

The following is a phone interview, with both Tom and Bob sharing one receiver. While at first I suspected Bob's "friend" Tom might actually be Bob himself, I did eventually hear two voices speaking at the same time.



Lorelei Sharkey: How did this all begin?

Tom Kraemer: Well, Bob had the SuperGoo program. And I said what the hell, you know, I've been doing the dating scene and nothing seems to work for me. I'll just make my own ideal girl and see how it goes from there. I played around and came up with, you know, supermodels, and thought, That's not going to work. I just wanted the home-time, next-door girl. Just somebody average.

Lo: She's cute, but she definitely doesn't have the best teeth. Since you have the means, why not give her a virtual cosmetic makeover?

Tom: Well, why make the perfect girl? That's too simple to do. I wanted just your everyday, wholesome girl.

Lo: And what is it about her looks that's inherently wholesome?

Tom: Well, I look into her eyes and I see a loving person. I'm very much a romantic. I like buying flowers, I like to do dinner, I like to do things for them, cook and clean and help 'em out around the house. Stuff like that.

Lo: And was it love at first sight?

Tom: Yes, it was.

Lo: Did you think when you were creating the image that you would go on this quest, that it would become a more serious pursuit after you had finished it?

Tom: Yes. It got more serious, yeah. I passed out a bunch of flyers throughout the shopping malls here in Boise. I put them on about five hundred vehicles. I went to taverns, I went to hotels and elevators.

Lo: And what's the response been?

Tom: The response has been pretty good; we've had hits from as far as Bosnia. I'm not gonna go over to Bosnia, 'cause too many bombs are being dropped over there. You know, I want to stay intact here. I've been to Washington, I've been to California, I've been to Oregon, I've been all over.

Lo: Meeting a different woman in each of those places?

Tom: Yeah, people tell me that she's here, she does this, she works there, blah blah blah, so on and so on.

Lo: Now you don't just show up in these towns where they've been spotted and then hunt them down, with them unaware?

Tom: No, it's already a set deal before I go.

Lo: Do you have them send pictures?

Tom: No. No, as long as they say they look like this girl, there's no need for that.

Lo: Do you talk on the phone much beforehand?

Tom: Yeah, I try to. Try to see what kind of mind they have.

Lo: And none of these women have worked out, right? How did they fail in living up to your expectations?

Tom: Well, for one, none of them really had too many brains upstairs. And they just liked to booze more than anything else. I'm not saying I don't like booze I drink the booze but I don't like to go to a bar every night and get looped. They were all barflies, pretty much.

Lo: Well, because of the unusual nature of this project, don't you think maybe the type of woman who would actually respond and say, "Come on out here and meet me" would more likely be a crazy party-animal rather than a more stable, down-to-earth brainiac?

Tom: Well, I don't want a brainiac, but I want somebody who's got a job and who's trustworthy, you know? I mean, the people that you meet in bars, come on, can you trust them? I don't think so. I would never go out with anybody I'd met in a bar.

Lo: Have you been tempted to create any others?

Tom: Nope. I'm fixed on her.

Lo: Even if you can't find her after several years?

Tom: No, actually, I've gone ten months now without sex, so I can hold out as long as it takes.

Lo: So, you're faithful to her?

Tom: Yes, I'm very faithful. I'm not even married to her and I'm faithful to her right now.

Lo: Let's say you meet somebody in your own town who doesn't look like her and you two hit it off, sparks fly, there's chemistry

Tom: I'm not searching for anybody else. I don't do anything. All I do is work and go home and visit my friends. That's all I do.

Lo: And you can't imagine the possibility of just running into somebody

Tom: What would I have to do, go to church to run into somebody?

Lo: Maybe.

Tom: That's the thing, I'm not a church-going person, you know? You follow me? How do you go meet people? Do you go to the library? Do you go to grocery stores?

Lo: Well sometimes you just meet people in unexpected places in line at the grocery store, or buying a book, or talking to your long-distance operator . . . There are myriad ways. I'm just trying to think of more organic means of meeting other people.

Tom: Well, how close are you to that picture?

Lo: Not very.

Tom: Not very? Well, what do you look like?

Lo: Um, yeah, you know, it's hard to put into words, but not like that. Why?

Tom: Oh, I was just wondering, you seem to be a nice girl, that's all.

Lo: Well, thank you. You seem like a delightful man. Now, you have such a brief description of the woman up on the site; the most you say about her is that she's "beautiful in heart and spirit," but everything pretty much seems to rest on outward appearance alone, and that's just from the neck up. Isn't that a little superficial?

Tom: Well, no. I mean I'm not going after supermodels here

Lo: I'm just saying that you've only got the picture and a very minimal description of her, so it's all pretty much based on her appearance, her facial features

Tom: She could weigh two hundred pounds. I don't care.

Lo: I guess I'm asking if you have any more specific personality requirements?

Tom: Oh, she's gotta be easy to get along with, she's gotta be funny, she's gotta be wanting to do things instead of being a homebody all the time, she's gotta be an upbeat person. She can't be one of those people where you go, "What do you want to do tonight?" And she goes, "I don't know." Those one-liner types of people. I don't need that. People need to talk.

Lo: And why not post those characteristics up on the site as well, if that's important, to give her a more well-rounded description?

Tom: Well, I'm trying to give everybody a fair shot.

Lo: So it is all based on appearance.

Tom: Well, I can train 'em. I can train 'em the way I want to train 'em.

Lo: What?! What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that?

Tom: I can train a person the way I want 'em. I get 'em . . . You women do it all the time, you fall in love with a man and you always change him. So I feel if I fall in love with a girl I can change her, too. Train her the way I want her.

Lo: You don't find that a little bit retro or old-fashioned?

Tom: No.

Lo: What happens if you meet this woman and she looks exactly like the image, but personality-wise she is completely the opposite of what you expected and hoped for, and on top of that, is strong-willed, independent, stubborn and refuses to be "trained," as you said.

Tom: Well, I will try my best to make it work, and if it doesn't, well, then the search goes on. It's that simple.

Lo: If she had certain requirements for her ideal mate and you didn't meet all of them, would you be willing to be trained?

Tom: Sure. Why not.

Lo: You wouldn't be sacrificing your identity?

Tom: No.

Lo: You'd do it for love?

Tom: That's right.

Lo: Do you have sexual fantasies about her?

Tom: Oh yeah. All the time. I have a picture of her in my closet, so when I open up my closet to get dressed every morning I see her. I have a picture of her on my headboard

Lo: On the headboard of your bed? Do you kiss it goodnight?

Tom: I don't kiss her goodnight but I talk to her every night.

Lo: Now, she doesn't talk back, does she?

Tom: No, she doesn't talk back. I just say, "I'm gonna find you some day, sweetie. You'll be mine." And then I also have one on the rear window of my truck so when I look into my rearview mirror, I can see her.

Lo: Isn't that a little spooky?

Tom: Spooky? I mean the girl doesn't even exist, so how can it be spooky? I'm not stalking anybody.

Lo: I mean for other people who might happen to catch a lift with you?

Tom: Oh, my friends, they just go, "Oh, you're crazy." And I just go, "Well, yeah, I am."

Lo: Now, say you actually find her and she doesn't want anything to do with you. What do you do? Are you afraid you might become a stalker?

Tom: No, I will not be a stalker. I will just go on my merry way.

Lo: What would you call this: a sociological experiment, a hopeless romance or an irrational obsession?

Tom: Hopeless romance, probably.

Lo: But you have hope.

Tom: I have hope, yes.

Lo: A lot of feedback on the site accuses you of living in la-la land, of being a little crazy. Do you ever feel like this project has loosened your ties to reality?

Tom: No, I don't think so.

Lo: Have you spoken to your doctor about it?

Tom: Why?

Lo: Well, I don't know.

Tom: I mean, I'm a normal person. I just want to find this girl. That is all. And I don't know why people think I'm crazy. I've seen crazier stuff out there in this world, trust me. Look at our president, for one. Okay?

Lo: Okay. Can I talk to Bob please?

Tom: Sure!

Bob Pagani: Hello.

Lo: Hi Bob. So do you have any faith that this could work out?

Bob: I don't know. On one level, it's really weird. On another, you say to yourself, well, people use dating services and people meet in bars. It's a peculiar way to go about it, but who knows?

Lo: Mm hmm. Well, I'm sure many people have accused you of enabling Tom's unrealistic obsessions.

Bob: [laughs] I was just thinking that, actually.

Lo: Wouldn't you be a better friend by taking him out on the town and helping him meet real live people in the flesh?

Bob: He tells me this is what he wants . . . I mean you should read these emails that come in it's amazing from all over the world with people who say they know someone who looks just like her. I got one yesterday. I think it was from Canada.

Lo: Can you tell me a little more about your site, www.crankymediaguy.com?

Bob: Originally it was a way to sort of vent and get stuff off my chest, stuff that was aggravating me about politics or whatever. I haven't updated it since the end of last year.

Lo: Well, I was looking at the site and the tagline is "Eat my shorts" in Latin. You describe it as "basically the world's only working class political commentary on culture-jamming zine." And the site highlights many of the media hoaxes you've played. All of which makes this "Have you seen this girl?" project sound a little suspicious, don't you think?

Bob: Well, it has nothing to do with me, you know? He just wanted to do it, so I did it.

Lo: Right, but he's your friend and you work together and it's your site. So would you swear on the Bible in a court of law that this is absolutely, totally, one hundred percent legitimate . . .

Bob: We're not putting anybody on. This is his project. All I did was stick it on the site because I had the site.

Lo: So you're not saying that you would definitely swear in a court of law that this is legitimate . . .

Bob: Oh yeah. Sure I would.

Lo: Okay. Could I talk to Tom again, please?

Bob: Sure. Hold on.

Tom: Hello.

Lo: Hi. I was just mentioning to Bob that, because of the nature of his original site, the fact that it's tagged a "culture-jamming zine," one becomes a little bit suspicious that this is all some media hoax.

Tom: No, it's not.

Lo: Well, how could you prove that it isn't?

Tom: Well, how can you prove that it is?

Lo: I would say that the onus is on you. I'm just curious because I think a lot of people will find this a little hard to believe.

Tom: Do you know what I say to those people?

Lo: What do you say?

Tom: Get a life!

Lo: Isn't that what they say to you, though?

Tom: So what? What's so crazy about a guy who wants to meet a girl that he's developed himself? I don't see anything crazy about that. There's a lot more crazy people out there in the world than me. I really think this will happen. And if it doesn't, oh well. At least I tried it. I go for what I believe, and I do what I want to do. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm my own businessman. I did it because I felt I could do it. Nothing's impossible in life. If you put your mind to it, you can do it.

Lo: Could I talk to some of the women you've already met? Do you have records of your travels and . . .

Tom: Well, I've got gas receipts, and that's pretty much it. I mean, you know, I couldn't . . um . . .

Lo: But the people you've met who look like this image in these various places, they could be reached, right?

Tom: Um, gosh, that I don't know because I just pretty much told the girls there that I was not interested, that I'm going back to Boise, Idaho, it's nice meeting you, blah blah blah, and that's pretty much it.

Lo: Right, but you have their contact information, though, because you got in touch with them in the first place, right?

Tom: Right. But I don't have that stuff anymore.

Lo: You threw it all away?

Tom: Well, yeah. Why keep it?

Lo: So you're saying you have no way of contacting them anymore?

Tom: No, I pretty much got rid of all of that. It's like baggage to me. It's all baggage. You know, I'm not a packrat. I've gotta move on. Bob might have those records on email.

Lo: Okay. Well, is there anything else that you would like to add?

Tom: No. Just that I want to find that girl.


© 2000 Lorelei Sharkey and hooksexup.com, Inc.


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