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Miss Information

I've always related better to guys — how can I make female friends?


By Cait Robinson

Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.

Dear Miss Information.

I am a thirty-one-year-old woman, and I've always been kind of quiet. When I was younger, it really pained me that I didn't have any "real" friendships, the way females often do — the kind that are so close, they almost seem like relationships. As a little girl, I always had way more fun playing with boys rather than girls, and that tendency has followed me right up to this day; I just find it easier to talk to guys. Whenever I talk to girls, I find that there's so much going on between the lines, that I'm simply put off or rejected (for what reason I'm never quite sure) and I've often wondered if there's something wrong with me.

I'm in a long term-relationship, and there's no problem clicking with my boyfriend's friends. The problem is I sometimes miss going out with girls, since my boyfriend often goes out with his guy friends. I've tried a few times with my sister-in-law and her friends, but I really don't know how to relate to them. Is there something wrong with me? I'm normally fine, and I see my boyfriend's friends as my friends too. That probably sounds sad, but I really don't think it is — I feel genuinely connected with these guys, and things are great otherwise. What is your input here? 

— Totally the Miranda

Dear Totally the Miranda, 

This question hits home, because nearly every female friend I have has given me some variation on the phrase, "I don't have many girl friends — it's so much easier to talk to guys." (This is usually said while we we're working on our cars and gutting fish, natch. I can crush a beer can on my head!) Some of us just aren't cut out for Sex and the City-style pods of friendettes, and that is absolutely okay. It doesn't mean something is wrong with you or you won't make female friends; it just means you may want to shift your goals a bit.

It doesn't sound like you're a girl-on-girl hater, given that you've tried to make female friends before. That's a great start. Now comes the trickier business of finding the girls who click with you. Think of it kind of like dating: a good number of guys you chat up aren't going to hold your attention, which is neither a flaw of yours nor of theirs; it's just a chemistry thing. Friendships aren't much different. To that end, increase your odds of finding cool girls who share your values. Pick a thing you care deeply about, and do that. Are you really into animals? Fantastic, volunteer at an animal shelter. Are you passionate about gluten-free cooking? Take a class. Do you wish you actually knew how to gut a fish? Take a number, sister. 

Choose activities that will put you in contact with a self-selecting population. This is why "at a trendy yoga studio" or "at a bar" could be hit-or-miss locales for friendmaking — if a place appeals to a wide range of people, your odds of finding ones who share your values may be lower. A meditation group or a creative writing class or a wilderness club, on the other hand, will more likely attract the kind of people you want to get to know. Getting involved in an activity has the added bonus of giving you a common interest and history with anyone you meet, which is like Duraflame for friendships.

Low-key, accessible girls are out there. (I have can marks on my forehead to prove it.) Follow your interests and keep an open mind. You'll be sipping Flirtinis with your girl-pod before you know it.

Commentarium (34 Comments)

Nov 13 11 - 1:57am
cm

"As long as you're happy in your relationship with the guy, her opinion doesn't matter." honestly her opinion doesn't matter, period. what if it was a one night stand? with a guy BFF doesn't like? it still isn't her place to judge. the deal is whatever you decide to do with what you're sittin on is your business.

Nov 13 11 - 10:53am
MK

As you get older especially - you don't want to waste time on people you dont click with (and this includes female friends). I was feeling the same way a couple years ago. I tried posting a Craiglist ad for female friends (and made it funny...something about needing some bitches). I believe I stated that I needed friends like myself...with 'questionable moral behavoir.' After weeding out the lesbians and nuts - I met 4 women one night at a pub. Two were boring, awkward and complained that we were discussing sex too much. Two were keepers. Of those two, one had small children, so her time was limited and it fizzled out. The one left - we are now the closest of friends (and she is just as close with my husband & kids). It was a silly move to post on there...I didnt expect it to work. But damn - it IS hard to meet friends!

Nov 14 11 - 1:26pm
nope

That's actually a higher success rate than I'd imagine a single craigslist post having.

Nov 13 11 - 12:48pm
nn

OTOH, cm, I have been the BFF who has listened to a girl bitch endlessly about how much an asshole some guy is and how depressed he makes her, only to find out 1 month, 2 months later that she's still sleeping with him. For awhile it makes me stressed and then it just makes me annoyed. Some people seem to have really bad self-control.

Nov 13 11 - 8:56pm
Shitty BFF

That's not my situation at all. I've never bitched about this guy being an 'asshole'. My 'relationship' with this guy came out of a really bizarre situation and she's only ever heard it second-hand from myself and from a couple other people and only has a face-value impression of him being an asshole. I'm hardly depressed - in fact, I'm very, very happy.

Nov 13 11 - 1:05pm
JCF

I'm assuming Shitty BFF and company are teenagers, as that's where the "Whew, I finally lost my virginity!" conversations tend to happen. I think this letter is more about fitting in than about virginity and its meaning. To prove it, I'm going to change sex into basketball. So all her friends are playing basketball, and she doesn't want to, but they're all trying to get her to join in, saying just try it, it's fun! But she really doesn't want to, so she tries hanging out with BFF, who she's never seen playing basketball and who never talks about it, and confides in what she assumes is their mutual dislike of basketball. The only thing is, BFF has been secretly playing basketball after school. If she admits this, the basketball-hating girl is now really going to feel dismayed at her mistake and isolated, like no one is going to relate to her.

This sort of thing is a phase that everyone is going to grow out of eventually, when they realize they can hang out with people without having all exactly the same views on everything, and it's OK. If BFF is old enough to realize this yet, she should try to encourage this rather than whether virginity is important or not. You can be with other people who have other views on things, maybe even being proud of things you don't like, and as long as you're not all high-and-mighty about how your way is right and theirs is wrong, it all works out.

Nov 14 11 - 1:27pm
nope

Well said.

Nov 14 11 - 4:11pm
Shitty BFF

This is actually a great perspective and it's given me something to think about.

For the record, my friend and I are 19/20 years old.

Nov 14 11 - 6:18pm
truth

I agree with JCF. I think that by telling your friend, she's going to feel like you were keeping it from her because you felt bad for her. No one wants to be someone else's pity party. Even if you tell her and keep being like "No, but it's still ok!" she's going to feel like she has to just get it over with, and might end up getting herself into a bad situation. Take it from a girl who was still a virgin until she was over 21 and ended up with the herp from the guy she lost it to just to lose it. Not worth it just to "get it over with." Not to mention I found my dream guy 6 months later. Luckily he's incredible and was willing to accept me despite everything. PATIENCE.

Nov 13 11 - 1:35pm
tb

To Totally the Miranda -

You didn't specify how old you are, so my comment may or may not be appropriate to you. Ever since I was about 12, I've had one best girl friend (with whom my friendship has its warm and cool periods - we'll take a vacation together, but then we may not speak on the phone for three months), a handful of acquaintance-girlfriends that I'd typically meet through work but never kept up with after parting ways, and a network of guy buds who I'd meet either at class or work. It wasn't until I was about 26 or 27 that started to develop close girlfriends. Part of the reason for that is that I figured out that when you're the "only girl" in a group of guy friends, it's pretty likely that at least one of them has one of those nice-guy crushes on you and are too chicken to ever admit it. (Do these guy friends have *other* singular females that they hang out with who are *not dating one of them?* If not, somebody's probably in love with you). Another question to ask is whether you've been socializing with the same group of guys for years, or if you instead just sort of fall into "serial friendships" with different groups of men. If there's a pattern evident of you dropping in and out of several groups of boys over the years, that's indicative that you might have trouble with intimacy. Dudes ARE easier to talk to and hang with, but dude-bros are difficult when it comes to talking through a difficult personal problem.

Anyway, I think the more "settled" in life you are and the more emotionally secure and mature you become, the easier you'll find it to talk and befriend women. Cait's advice to get into certain activities to meet a self-selecting pool of people is spot-on. Also, keep an eye out for any women who seem genuinely kind or caring - seek them out and go to lunch with them. Those are the kind of friends you want in your corner when you go through a break-up or lose a parent. Last, just try to foster that same warmness within yourself; people will and remember that you were the person who sent them a quick sympathy note when their grandma died. As Maya Angelou wrote: “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”

Nov 13 11 - 9:00pm
Dea

This is some good perspective. I also found myself in the LW's situation until I was probably 23 or 24. Like her, I just found guys easier to talk to and get along with, and was mystified by and didn't have much interest in all of the subtext that can go on with female friendships. Of course, as tb mentions, there's often a subtle unrequited crush happening, but I usually found that preferable to dealing with girl antics. I think what changed for me was finding girls who I could actually relate to beyond things like shopping and periods -- ones who were adventurous, open-minded, and non-petty, and also didn't care for passive-aggressive communication.
I agree with Cait's advice about looking for self-selected groups who might have the characteristics you want in a friend. For me, it was a bit of a larger scale -- I lived abroad for two years, and found that I related well with other expats because we shared a curiosity, openness towards other people and places, and a sense of adventure. You certainly don't have to pick up your life and move across the world to find what you're looking for though. Now that I live back in the U.S., I've found a fair number of great girl friends here since I've had some "practice" scouting them out. Cait's advice is spot-on. Good luck!

Nov 13 11 - 10:51pm
31

the first sentence of her letter says she's 31

Nov 13 11 - 2:05pm
Renata

If she doesn't like to be judged by her friends, she's in no place to judge you.

Nov 13 11 - 2:38pm
:)

I'm definitely a girl's girl & I've made an effort to avoid the girls who say they just get along better with guys because these girls usually make terrible friends. There's a reason they don't have girlfriends and it's usually because they're backstabbers and will throw you under the bus if it means more attention from men.

Nov 15 11 - 11:36am
thinkywritey

hahahahahaha
^^^Why I don't have more female friends.

Nov 15 11 - 5:49pm
Dea

Lol, exactly!

Nov 19 11 - 1:39am
@ :)

Amen, sista! I'm the same way and have noticed the same thing. The worst part is how oblivious they are about it. It's as if their daddy issues run so deep that they don't even notice that they're throwing you under the bus for the sake of male attention--ANY male attention whatsoever.

Nov 23 11 - 10:04am
totally the miranda

@ :)
That may be a valid experience learned the hard way in your life, but that is SO not who I am, and I can´t help but feel a bit offended that you would think that I´m some under-the-bus-throwing, backstabbing bitch who´s craving attention from any nearby male.
I have experienced the havoc wreaked by such individuals, and that is one of the reasons I´ve stayed away from girls, so as not to wind up with tyre tracks on my shirt beside the knife. Also, I´m a quiet girl; not the typical attention-seeker. Lastly, I just have more similar interests with the guys I know and have known for over a decade.

Nov 13 11 - 3:59pm
Betty

LW2: You and your BFF are "extremely close" but she doesn't know that you've been seeing/sleeping with a guy for over a year? It sounds like you're feeling conflicted about your relationship with this guy if you've been hiding how close you've gotten with this guy for over a year.

Nov 13 11 - 7:31pm
Shitty BFF

My relationship with this guy is pretty complicated. We aren't exclusive (but at the same time, sort of are), and we're extremely long distance for 85% of the time. I don't get to see him very often, but we're very attached to one another, but it's not like I'm ducking behind trees trying to hide something.

Nov 13 11 - 10:56pm
chicken tacos

I have to disagree with the advice for LW2 here. Normally, I think an NBD-style disclosure would be the best way to deal with a generic scenario like this, but the conversation in this situation is going to pan out like this:
LW--I've not a virgin. NBD.
Friend--NBD?!! When did this happen, who?
LW--A year ago, guy you don't like.
F--Why didn't you tell me? Wait, has this happened more than once?
LW--I didn't want you to feel bad, yes.
F--This has been going on for a year?!! You've been lying to me because you felt sorry for me for a year?!! WTF!
Clearly these girls are still pretty young, and when a significant basis of the relationship is the fact that (in one of their minds, at least) they are the only 2 virgins out of their larger social circle, a change in that status IS a big deal. And when she finds out this happened quite a while ago, she's going to flip out, no matter how you play it. Because this is going to be a big deal, I would recommend owning up to it as completely as possible. Let her know you know you fucked up, and that you're sorry, but you were worried about how she would take it, and the longer it took, the more scared you got, especially about her lumping you in with the other "floozies". Reassure her that you still value the same things, that you think she's awesome for not succumbing to peer pressure, and that you're committed to the friendship no matter what the state of anyone's hymen may be. She'll still be angry, but if the relationship is strong enough, it'll survive.
I do have to ask, though, if you were really so unable to confide in this person for this long, do you really think your friendship is "extremely close"? According to you, she's your BFF--the person you're closest to in the entire world. You say you're a private person, which is completely understandable, but maybe you should reevaluate just how close the two of you actually are. Your worries about her judging or rejecting you don't speak well about your interactions either.

Nov 13 11 - 8:17pm
Dead Eye Jack

LW1: Funny ain't it. I'm a guy but I find male friendships a bit limiting. I get a bit tired of the endless pissing contests that can arise out of just about well, anything. I get what I need out of male social interaction at work and through the male hang-ons of my partner who is a bit like you and doesn't have a clutch of gal pals. I guess I like girls like you (probably why I married one) because they're not into all that between the lines crap either. Sometimes I wished I had a bromance or two on the go too... for those periodic hits of utter male stupidity... but how many of those exist when you're all growed-up with significant others, kids etc.

Nov 14 11 - 2:09pm
aa

hey dead eye. yea me too. i've always hung out with women (usually once the crush passes and we become friends) i get along with men but never can get too close/tight with 'em. lately been wishing for a bromance or two as well. i have occasional flings but nothing on a regular basis. i get the longing once in a while but realize that perhaps i'm making a big deal out of gender and that i have cool people around me. i'm 32 now and kinda gave up on the idea...

Nov 17 11 - 11:38pm
hearts and darts

Friends are friends, no matter which gender you hit it off with. But I do think its important to have friends of the same gender, as evidenced by the fact that LW1 and everyone who identifies with her long for it. I've had trouble with it, like LW1. But when you find those rare guys/girls that you do click with, it's worth the search. Not every girl is into backstabbing to get a man. Not every guy wants to get into a pissing contest. Weed those people out (and i Know it seems like a lot of them) and what you'll find is someone who gets you like no one else does. And bonus, going outside of your comfort zone to spend time with them also refreshes your relationships with your regular crew.

Nov 14 11 - 11:18am
Andrea

To the lady with no close female friends -- I, too, was like this from the age of about 16 to 26. I found that as a kid, it was easy to make friends. Then, as I entered adultish-hood, it was really hard to find gals to click with. Then, I enrolled in graduate school and met the love of my friend life. I am not sure we would have become so close had we not been both going through a really rigorous program. Something about going though a difficult or challenging goal-oriented process with other people can bring you close, even if you might otherwise meet at a party or bar or yoga and not really "click."

So, I'd advise: if grad school isn't for you (because indeed, it can be hard and expensive) doing something like enrolling in a Crossfit-type class, boot camp, joining TINY yoga studio (I made friends with a yoga teacher at mine because we had 5-6 people in class every week), trying out a gardening course or homebrew class, that kind of thing, you may find that increases your chances of bonding with other ladies.

Nov 14 11 - 11:57am
BrosephofArimathea

LW2, ditch your weird friends and hang out with LW1.

Nov 14 11 - 1:30pm
nope

You do realize one of those ladies is 31 and the other is probably closer to 16, right?

Nov 16 11 - 4:31pm
CaitRobinson

@BrosephofArimathea @nope Hahaha. I don't know which of you to high-five first.

Nov 14 11 - 2:54pm
vv

I've been in a similar situation as LW1. I didn't relate to other women very well because I wasn't "girly." I gradually made more female friends in college and grad school because I found a wider range of women who were also not "girly" and had more interests in common with me. Cait's advice is spot-on. Finding an activity in common is the best way to meet people in general.

Nov 16 11 - 5:27pm
CaitRobinson

@vv Word. One thing I forgot to add! It's SO MUCH EASIER to pick up lady-friends than it is to pick up dudes, because the element of sexual attraction is usually a non-issue. A girl will usually be more open to another girl chatting her up than a strange guy. Sincere compliments ("Your ring is beautiful/ your haircut is so cute!") are really great conversation starters. I have had extensive conversations with strangers on astrological signs, nails, and stories behind jewelry--all good topics to lead with.

Nov 19 11 - 1:46am
@Cait

...and don't forget conversations about a mutual affinity for mocking sappy hipster music. Just sayin'.

Nov 15 11 - 11:43am
thinkywritey

Seems to me it's pretty common for men to have close female friends, and for women to have close male friends... a lot of this, I'm guessing, arising from the lack of competitiveness. Men compete with each other; women compete with each other. A male/female friendship has the potential to be much more relaxed and honest in significant ways because of the lack of competition, or pissing contests as another commenter called it.

I'm a woman who typically has had more male friends, and I don't have any problem with that. I've discovered something interesting int he past couple of years though: I'm single, and the married women I know tend to be more interesting friends for me. Again, is it the lack of competition for men? Maybe. I've noticed they tend to have more varied things to talk/do about than my single (too often boycrazy) female friends -- because they HAVE to.

Nov 15 11 - 8:22pm
profrobert

I agree with the competition insight. You're lucky, though, that the married women don't feel competitive with you. I've heard stories about married women who are friends, one gets divorced, and the others suddenly become threatened by her because she's single and, presumably, on the hunt after their husbands (which is, of course, nuts, but I've heard this more than once).

Nov 20 11 - 2:05pm
Hu J.

"In its old-school sense, women who maintain their virtue fetch a higher bride-price at market (fifteen pence and a fine, fatted calf! A girl can dream!)"

hahahaha! oh christ let me pull myself up from the floor. "Yo Mike, Bro, check it out, you wanna come over tomorrow, drink a bunch of Bud Light, play some madden and do some Dowry number crunching. I'm thinking of proposing to an Alpha-Phi I met at a party last weekend. If only I had paid attention in Econ!"

then again... engagement ring: token dowry, no?

reminds me of those stats how in Europe and USA hetero marriages where women make a lot more the divorce rate skyrockets (women, not men are the ones who then try to compensate by taking on extra household labor). Our social and economic situation changes in some ways for the better and we just can't cope. 60 hour workweeks? Sure. My husband making less than me/ My wife making more? Fuck that, kids this is NOT working out.

most americans: 5+ generations from ancestors living in the category of sustenance farming economy where a well-selected marriage greatly increased your chances of not starving to death (that was what "well-selected" meant). Today: If you're a woman, losing your virginity without getting married will no longer bankrupt your extended family (you can get a job that will pay for lots of food; you can use protection). But even plenty of agnostics will hate on women who have lots of sex; we just can't cope.

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