Miss Information
Is it awful of me to hook up with my ex's friend?
By Cait Robinson
Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.
Dear Miss Information,
I dumped "V" more than a year ago — it wasn't a bad relationship, but I wanted new experiences. We truly loved each other and he took a while to get over it. We kept in touch intermittently for awhile, till he found a girl who soon became his girlfriend. At first, I was absurdly jealous, but later I accepted the game was over for me. Since we broke up, I've been going out as often as I can. I've kissed a few guys since then, and I dated one of them for a couple of months but dumped him, too, for similar reasons. Now that guy is in a happy relationship, and he doesn't seem to know I still exist. And me? Absolutely alone and bored: no one to get out with, no kisses, no sex, no nothing.
One day, when I hadn't seen or talked to V in a long time, we started web-chatting. He said he was happy with his new girlfriend. Then we started video-chatting, and soon we were having cam-sex. It was so stimulating that I wondered why we hadn't done it while we were together. Yesterday we played a second round. This time, I suggested we could hook up in person at some point. Against my expectations, he agreed. It's not like we made a date, but I know there's a chance that it could happen, and I'm starting to fantasize about what it would be like.
Now I'm asking myself: do I have to care about his girlfriend's feelings? On one hand, I'm not the one who's being unfaithful. I hardly know her. I definitely don't like her. And I want to get laid, for God's sake!
On the other hand, I have a strong female-solidarity feeling, telling me not to do to others what I don't want to be done to me. In the depths of my heart I believe that she doesn't deserve to be cheated on. I can't help but imagine myself in her place, and I feel terrible. Should I move on?
— The Other Woman
Dear The Other Woman,
You absolutely should care about his girlfriend's feelings, inasmuch as she is a human, and you owe it to other humans to treat them with care. (That line is also an excerpt from my upcoming children's book, Linda the Morality Lemur Goes to the Dentist.) You hit the nail on the head with your "do unto others" comment. Don't be complicit in messy situations.
You should take your role in this seriously, but V should also be drawing boundaries. If he's prioritizing his own bonertime over his girlfriend's feelings, that's bad. Humanity should trump boners, always. (That line is from chapter three, "Linda Gets Percocet.") And while you reason that you aren't the one being unfaithful, you'd be aiding a cheater, and that's not much better.
As for you, I see a few things going on here. You chose to be single, which is great, but being single does involve periods of stone boredom. You signed up for it! Now you're gazing wistfully at the guys you passed up, thinking "What if?" That's perfectly normal. But your loneliness and boredom don't entitle you to meddle in your exes' happy relationships. If you're seriously rethinking the breakup, that's a conversation you should have fully-clothed, in daylight, with no webcam. But if you're just bored and horny, you need to apply that energy elsewhere. Don't break up V's happy relationship because you're feeling restless.
Dear Miss Info,
I am in a horrible mess. My boyfriend of six years and I broke up a few months ago. It was a long time coming, but still a hard decision. After the breakup we continued to hook up and spend a lot of time together. We were basically acting like a couple without the title — until really recently, when I told him we couldn't do this anymore — first because I knew he wouldn't commit to me, and second, because by thas point, I was pretty much done with him too.
I'm friends with his friends and have been hanging out with his circle. I happened to meet a guy within the circle (a new addition) and I'm really into him. He's into me too, and we've been hanging out a bit, flirting pretty innocently. Then last night we were having kind of a moment, and he semi-freaked out and gave me a lecture about the "guy code."
I tried to tell him how over it is with my ex, and that I like him and feel that we deserve a chance together. Then I asked him to kiss me, but he said no and walked away. It was really dramatic, and I kind of expected him to come back and swoop me up, but he didn't.
We texted today, so things are okay between us, but where do we go from here? He's a good guy and I guess I admire his resolve. I also care about my ex and don't want to hurt him. They aren't friends; they just have the same circle of friends. I don't feel like I'm going to ruin anything for either of them. What do I do? I don't want to just walk away from this. It's a rarity for me to be genuinely interested in someone.
— Friend-Wrecker?
Dear Friend-Wrecker,
While this is a very real problem, it doesn't warrant the kind of drama your new friend seems to be injecting into it. It would be one thing if you were considering dating your ex's roommate, or his brother, or his priest, but you're not. By your description, they're friendly acquaintances at best.
This new guy doesn't want to rock the boat in his new circle of friends, which is understandable. But until he calms down, nothing can happen. You seem to regard your flirtation as no big deal, whereas he views it as a situation deserving of "a lecture on the Guy Code." In short, if he's that uncomfortable about the whole thing, he's going to make a really crappy boyfriend. He needs to be on board — which means open with his friends, which means not hiding you in lockers or trash cans — before he can be worth a damn. That's the Human Code, and it trumps the Guy Code.
As long as you're both kind, discreet, and sensitive to boundaries, your situation shouldn't have to be a star-cross'd lovers kind of deal. What can you do? It sounds like you explained all this, and he still turned you down and walked away. (Cue slow-motion and wind machine.) As long as you're honest and firm, you've done all you can. You can't control how he feels; he'll have to come around on his own.
Commentarium (39 Comments)
1
1
1
Good advice to The Other Woman -who also really, really needs to grow up!
and her ex is a scumbag, clearly. definitely better off single
While it was sound advice to the 'other woman' to avoid participating in her ex boyfriend's mess, I would hardly qualify her ex boyfriend's new relationship as a 'happy' one. That, is just laughable at best! If anything she should steer clear of any involvement with him not merely out of a sense of female solidarity but rather because he's obviously a completely morally-bankrupt douche-hole and she was lucky to get out of the relationship as cleanly as she did the first time.
I was about to say the same thing. Chances are he'll just cheat on her with someone else... the relationship's dead in the water.
The first LW, you're a bitch. That's all.
She certainly seems to lack empathy. I don't foresee any successful relationships for her in the near future, but then again, it doesn't sound like that's what she wants anyway.
ALL GUYS i ever dated, would still have sex with me after we broke up and they were in a new relationship..also most guys in relationships do cheat. So basically give up on men altogether cuz they are "morally bankrupt"? choose "humanity over boner" hahahhaha. the boner always wins. who are you kidding.
well obviously @bee, you are poor judge of character and deserve the guys you've dated! I'm a guy and I know of NO GUY in my circle of friends who have cheated on a new girlfriend with their old girlfriend. Hell, most of us have never cheated whatsoever. So enjoy the scumbags @bee and you can be rest assured that my friends and I will stay far away from the likes of you!
I hope to never be as bitter as you sound, Bee. There are some losers out there, that's for sure, but there are a lot of insecurities and weirdness that drives the less attractive aspects of character such as cheating. A lot of women cheat as well. Would you advise the same if the gender roles were reversed or is just because it is a man in this position that prompted you to advise to give up on an entire GENDER.
uhh i was being sarcastic with that basically give up men thing, making fun of the article. im not bitter at all. i love men. but they cheat . its a fact. girls do too.
You need to find better men. They're out there.
bee, not all men cheat. I've never cheated in any of my relationships once and I had plenty of opportunities to. Even when my marriage was falling apart, I never cheated. I waited until I was divorced. I don't believe in cheating.
I'm willing to bet with bee's "most people cheat" mentality that she's in high school and has probably never had an actual relationship. And bee if you're the type of person that sleeps with other women's boyfriends it's no shock that all you can meet are guys that cheat.
Other Woman, so it seems like you keep dumping guys because you want new experiences. What does that mean? Are there specific new experiences you're looking for, or do you just get easily bored once you've exhausted his sexual repertoire? Figure this out first. Then go out and seek what you're looking for in a more focused way. Don't get your ex in trouble with his new girlfriend. The cam sex might count as a "new experience," and even cheating (on his end) might seem like it, but that's not the way to long-term happiness, as that guilt inside you is trying to point out. If you just need sex every now and then while you're figuring out what you want, there are lots of guys who will be happy to help, as long as you tell them that's all you're looking for at the moment.
LW#1 needs way too much justification to just barely do the right thing. If you believed in female solidarity and do unto others, TOW, you wouldn't even consider that shit.
Amen.
I am preordering the hell out of the upcoming Linda the Morality Lemur books.
Get excited, Alo! They will also have holes in the pages where you can slide a your own picture in. Each time Selfie the Selfishness Seahorse appears, it's actually you (or your ex, or your friend... there are no rules, really.) Meta, or what?
To Friend Wrecker (#2):
"We texted today, so things are okay between us, but where do we go from here?"
What are you talking about? When someone indicates they're not interested in you, there's no "next steps," you're no longer a part of their romantic life. You don't need to do anything. You just need to leave them alone.
Did he reject you for legitimate reasons? Maybe, maybe not. Hey, maybe he is being unreasonable and him and your ex barely know each other. But even if he rejected you for what everyone else agrees is the stupidest reason in the world, doesn't mean that he's obligated to be your boyfriend. And it doesn't reduce your obligation to respect his decision. You can lobby him to see things differently (that is, you can keep hitting on him now and then), but do it rarely, and don't make it creepy.
You don't know what his motivations are, maybe he's just giving a shitty reason because he doesn't want to give one that hurts. When someone wants you to walk away, that's the only thing you can do.
I know I'm being cold about this. Deep down, I don't feel so hostile, I know Friend Wrecker's just longing. But I'd be this harsh if I was talking to my friends. Sometimes you gotta be honest for someone to snap out of it.
I wouldn't be so fast to call the first dude a total asshole. Yes, obviously what he's doing is wrong. And I try to shy away from the whole "let's stone the seductress woman" approach. However, in this case I think it totally applies. She dumped him. He was upset. If the new girl is his rebound, she'll probably never compare in his mind to the LW. Maybe he's the type of guy who would never normally cheat, but he's comfortable with this girl, there's an ease in it that comes from their history. And chance are, in the back (or god forbid, in the front) of his mind, he's thinking this means she's going to take him back. If that's the case, he's only playing fast and loose with his current relationship because he envisions it ending soon. Not an inherently bad dude, just kind of hopeless. And to the LW, I get it. You're horny, he's willing, there's no surprises, and you have that feeling of "I was there first". Tough shit. As someone said above, grow up. Go out on your own if you don't have someone to go with. At the very least it will keep you off the webcam.
Can't we all just agree that they're both selfish, immature people? "Who was worse" is a game where no one lives.
Haha, I meant "no one wins," I'm not instituting any morality police Battle Royale.
Ahahaha, "Morality Police Battle Royale!" Next up in the Linda the Morality Lemur series. (Don't worry, Completely, you'll get royalties.)
LW1 needs to take the "talk with clothes on" part of the advice. I think there's some unresolved issues between LW1 and V. If you're fantasizing about getting back together with your ex, what is the reason? His willingness to cheat with you could mean he's a douche, or it could mean that his 'happy relationship' is a line he is using to make his old flame (that's you, LW1) think that he's over her and things are okay. Your web cam sessions suggest V might be full of shit that he has a happy relationship. I think the truth from V is something LW1 needs to discover, and that can only happy in a boundary filled situation involving clothes, preferably somewhere a bit public, and no alcohol or drugs.
Unless Friend-Wrecker's letter was heavily edited for content, Cait is just showing her man-hatin' slip again, filling in the blanks to fit the story into her misandrist life narrative.
So Friend-Wrecker and this guy had "kind of a moment", which isn't clearly defined. Did he make a move on Friend-Wrecker? Did she make a move on him? We have no way of knowing, but that doesn't stop Cait from saying that the problem "doesn't warrant the kind of drama your new friend seems to be injecting into it". Can you keep a little of the third-party, hearsay-quality value judgements to yourself? If anyone's injecting drama into this situation, it's Friend-Wrecker by her insistence on wading in a particularly shallow end of the dating pool. A lot of guys won't date anyone who's an ex of a friend or acquaintance from a circle of friends. Good rationalization or a terrible one, it doesn't matter. It's his choice, and it's Friend-Wrecker's responsibility to accept that and move on.
I was a little surprised by the MisInfo's presumptuousness on this one. Suggesting that he's not "worth a damn" because he'll try to hide her in a locker and be less-than-open about the relationship seems based on exactly nothing--and moot anyway, considering he stopped her in her tracks. Who said he's trying to hide anything? Has he broken the "human code." No and no. Stop preemptively ragging a guy who's doing the right thing--by human or guy standards.
I love how every woman who ever has anything negative to say about a guy is automatically a "man hater". It makes everything that follows sound so rational.
Other Woman, I was that girl (V's girlfriend), in exactly the same situation. And at the time, I would happily have slaughtered my partner's ex with my bare hands. So you'd best not take this any further, not only for the sake of human decency, but for the preservation of your physical safety.
Other Woman, I don't care if you're as young and immature as you sound…you give a bad name to ex-girlfriends everywhere. You're the one who did the dumping here (so you claim). What right do you have to be jealous when your ex moves on with someone else??? It sounds like you want everyone to be as miserable as you are.
So basically she doesn't want a boyfriend but fuck buddies/one night stands. For a girl, that's easy. Just go out every night, hang around bars and clubs. You'll get your "new experiences" there. They will be shallow though.
The Other Woman- what a BITCH. Seriously, you want new experiences? Sounds like you just want sex- how about finding that with someone that doesn't have a gf? Talk about manipulative and self-centered..
Agreed. I hope the new girlfriend figures it out and dumps him.
Regarding or to "The Other Woman" - I have been cheated on, and have been the other woman in scenarios too, and a long time ago I had an amazing conversation with an older woman in her 80's about love and sex that changed my perspective completely. She told me that women have a hard enough time in this world, so why would you want to hurt another woman this way (intentionally or unintentionally). Women should support each other; be kind to each other; and respect each other.
The guy is 50% responsible, but do yourself a favor and don't let it happen again. Don't be THAT woman.
Why, oh why break up with someone you love? I've had that happen to me and it's just so messy. You're a bad person for luring him into sex, but he's worse for cheating on his current girlfriend-
1
Now you say something