Dateline: "I regret my decision to let him pick me up."
Will the adorable tiger cubs at the zoo soften our narrator on her date's bad jokes?
Female, 21, Student
Male, 23, Firefighter
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2:00 p.m. - Date picks me up at my place. His car is clean, but he plays a mix of Kenny Chesney and Chris Brown the whole way.
2:22 - Arrive at the zoo. Date informs me that his grandma hasn't transferred money to his account yet — can I please pay for our entrance? He'll pay me back later. I agree, mostly to end the awkward conversation. It's not like I can refuse and go home — I don't have a car and the zoo is a few miles outside the city.
2:25 - Watching napping tigers. Old couple offers to take our picture; my date returns the favor and makes some cute comments about how long love lasts. I start to think I might be able to like him.
2:45 - African-American family with children are being rowdy near the concert pavilion. I smile and make a comment about how sweet family time is. He makes a joke about black men in prison enjoying sex in the shower. For the second time, I regret my decision to let him pick me up.
3:00 - Awkward silence from his completely inappropriate joke finally ends when he asks me about my family. I yammer about them while picking up the pace, hoping to make it through the rest of the exhibits quickly.
3:10 - We're near the end at the penguin enclosure. He pushes me against the fake cave wall and kisses me. His force startles me. I don't reciprocate but also don't openly reject him. The drive back is at least twenty minutes long.
3:20 - He starts talking about what we can do tomorrow, and I try to be non-committal. I mention that I have finals coming up.
3:25 - He starts asking me why I'm going to school. I interpret his questions as genuine interest until he makes a comment about women getting pointless degrees. I weigh the option of paying forty dollars for a cab to take me home.
3:30 - I convince him to drop me off at a coffee shop five minutes away, where I've texted a friend to meet me. He asks if I want him to wait with me, but I don't feel like buying him a latte. I tell him that she's just around the corner and I'll be fine.
3:32 - He seems annoyed, but hugs me goodbye then steals another forceful kiss as I pull away. He says he'll text me.
4:00 - My friend arrives and I tell her all about our date. I get a text from him asking if he can take me to dinner tonight. He says he needs to pay me back still. I send back a quick "I'm busy tonight." He replies, "I'll let it slide this time, but normally I expect my woman to make time for me."
4:01 - I tell him not to worry about paying me back. I don't see myself ever having much time for him in the future.
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Commentarium (56 Comments)
I'd rather be alone than let a lady pay for the first date, shit is redonkulous. That guy should be ashamed of himself.
I'd rather let women make their own independent financial decisions on the first date. I don't mind paying, and I don't mind them paying/splitting. If they insist either way, I'm fine with it.
The ridiculous thing is arguing or debating about it. A single date isn't going to be a budget breaker for either one of us, one would hope.
I never pay for the first date as a rule. I'll split the cost if she asks or if I don't feel like seeing her again but if I like the girl I leave it up to her to show me she likes me enough to pick up the check. It's not about being cheap (I'm not) its about being selective; I'll suggest a second date which will be my treat before the issue of paying comes up if I like her and if she assumes that today is my treat as well then she's selfish and not good enough for me. You might recognize this as a variation on the "locked-door test" from A Bronx Tale.
Honestly, whoever asks the other person out on the date and plans the date should be the one who pays for the date. I'd be super angry if the other person planned everything and then was unwilling to pay for it. It's not chivalry or feminism, it's just fair.
Agree with Stephanie. Honestly, if someone had asked me out on a date and then, like Dylan, didn't offer to pay, I would assume that my date was no longer interested in me and/or is cheap. Either way, I would likely be upset (especially if I hadn't picked the date and known how expensive it would be) and I almost assuredly wouldn't go on a second date.
I agree with Loue and Stephanie. If a date asked me out to dinner and then took me to a really expensive restaurant I think it would be a bit rude to not even offer to pay. I don't mind splitting the bill but I would never pay the whole check if they asked me out. I don't really think it's bad for the guy to pay for the date if he really likes you. If a guy really likes a girl then I'm sure the girl would pay for future dates and it would even out eventually.
I think it's a shame to turn the whole who-pays-for-the-date into a game of who-cares-enough-about-whom. If you invited someone out, then pay for them. If you're broke, split the bill. The polite thing to do is usually obvious from the situation, and it should be about just that - common courtesy - and not about some kind of demonstration of power over the person you're dating, where their payment is somehow supposed to reflect their degree of affection for you.
Not splitting the bill is one of the things that distinguishes a romantic interest relationship from a friendship. If a guy asked me out but didn't want to pay for me, then yeah, I'd assume that he wasn't genuinely interested, that he was dialing things back to "friendship." I'm happy to pay for dates I initiate too, but to me at least, unwillingness to pay for the other person is an indicator of disinterest.
Men have to do almost all the asking. So saying "asker pays" it's a just sexist euphemism for saying "men should always pay".
First of all, you're assuming only heterosexual relationships here, which I definitely wasn't in my post. Also, I think saying "men have to do almost all the asking" (assuming straight relationships here) is pretty sexist itself. Men don't HAVE to do anything--many women do feel comfortable making a first move, and comments like yours reinforce the idea that they shouldn't. I think many women would prefer to feel that they had the freedom to ask men out without being seen as too forward, masculine, etc. And I will stand by, whoever asks someone out on a FIRST date should plan it (because you should have something specific you're asking someone to do), and therefore pay (because the asker had control over the price of the date). Saying "men should always pay" isn't the question either, since it's simply a discussion of first dates.
It really blows me away that guys like "Kevin" and "Dylan" even exist, despite the fact that I've encountered them in real life. How hard is it to understand simple courtesy? Whoever does the inviting should offer to pay. (And yes, women do invite men out on dates.) If you assume your date is selfish because they don't offer to pay on the first date, you're not being "selective." You're being an asshole.
Thanks for sharing this - perfect PSA for not getting into cars with people you don't know well. I'm glad you didn't end up assaulted (well, *more* assaulted).
That was just cringeworthy reading about it...poor girl living it :(
your date is really terrible.
you are more considerate and thoughtful than he ever could be, you ma'am are a class woman
"Date informs me that his grandma hasn't transferred money to his account yet."
Why the date continued past this is beyond me.
She flat out says why: "I agree, mostly to end the awkward conversation. It's not like I can refuse and go home — I don't have a car and the zoo is a few miles outside the city. "
You can always say no. You can refuse. Awkward? Yes. Possible? Yes.
I don't understand why people think it's okay to give completely mixed signals throughout the date--really, you didn't reject his kiss even though you weren't interested? You let him kiss you again? You were "non-committal" about another date even though you knew you weren't going to go out with him? You seriously talked about finals coming up instead of being upfront?--and then be all aghast that they get asked out again.
Unless this story was written by a teenager, I'm throwing side eye.
Agreed. Women can help fix this societal problem by putting their feet down and letting men know that this kind of behaviour is not acceptable. Otherwise, they'll do exactly the same thing on the next date. Be clear!
I think that's a bit unfair. She told him right after the date she wasn't interested. That's what dates are supposed to be for -a chance for people to experience time with another person and make up their mind, not a sign of commitment. The first kiss startled her. After that, he was her ride home, so she probably figured it wouldn't hurt to play nice for a couple hours. Her text at the end of all that was pretty straightforward, so I think she could have done a lot worse. Also, men give mixed signals a lot too, especially if a girl they're not sure about kisses them.
Underlining a time-honored tactic of us menfolk to make sure potential mates feel stranded and trapped, and therefore dependent on us and our grandmothers' financial largess.
Or, well, something like that.
Erm. He was driving and he was weird, do you think she had much choice? Women need to put their feet down, true, but you don't know what this person can do. You just get the hell out of there in any way you can. Imagine how he'd reacted if she'd told him while he was driving that she didn't want to see him again, after the forced kissed her.
"He was driving and he was weird, do you think she had much choice? "
Yes. Yes, I do. Are you kidding? They were at the zoo, not on walkabout through the Australian desert. Are you really telling me that because this bozo gave her a ride and she accepted, that she is now just trying to find a way to negotiate with a terrorist until she's safely back home? Call a taxi. Catch a bus. Text a friend to come and pick you up. There are a myriad of ways to negotiate your person through three dimensional space once you're an adult with a credit card, a phone, and some common sense. Or, I guess, get pawed up by some random because you "don't know what this person can do".
Fucking take some agency in your life. This guy wasn't threatening her, he was going on a date he thought was working out better than it was. I see no reason to assume violence that isn't there. If she had said, "Dude, I'm not into the kissing, let's head back" and he responded with creepiness, sure, then you escalate your response as appropriate. But this looks like the behaviour of a teenaged kid who shouldn't be allowed out on her own. I'm not going to be blaming some dude for this chick's bad choices and inability to adult up.
Jess... were you the dude in this episode of Dateline???
Given that Jess talks elsewhere in this thread about personal experience with dating men, I'm guessing that's unlikely. Nice ad hominem attack, though, very classy.
Jess, maybe her indifference simply outweighed [her aversion+$40]. I would guess that she didn't feel actively threatened by this guy (she doesn't mention fear). So I don't think this is a "don't know what this person can do" situation. Maybe taking the cab would have been "taking the high road", but if she decided she was sufficiently in control, & would prefer to ride out the unpleasantness than spend the extra money to make a point (a non-trivial sum for a 21-year-old student), well, I think that's fine.
Certainly, there is pressure on young women to act nice even to people who are being jerks. This could well be playing a role in this scenario. But I think we should allow for the idea that she'd decided it was not a hill worth dying on.
This exemplifies why I don't go on epic first dates. With so much online dating, I'm not sure why that isn't a rule for most people- keep your escape routes open, right? I mean, this guy sounds like he could get violent, and at the very least showed no regard for your safety or comfort.
You're being too nice, jaime. He forced two kisses on her, so we know he physically imposes himself on women. We don't have to guess.
Eh, the guy's a complete douche, and I'd say it's a safe bet he'd be controlling (if not abusive) in a relationship. But saying "we know" he's a rapist seems kinda-sorta insufferably smug to me. Plenty of guys are brutish morons (and overly-forceful kissers) without actually being rapists. We can acknowledge the red flags without patting ourselves on the back for it.
@AAC, but I didn't say he was a rapist, I said that he physically imposes himself on women. Because he did physically impose himself on her, twice, with his mouth. I'm not sure why you feel the need to defend this guy, AAC. He's bad news.
@KH, I think it's pretty clear that you meant to imply that the guy was probably a rapist -- what else could "physically imposes himself on women" mean? Why else would you say that Jaime is being "too nice" when s/he says the guy "could get violent"? -- and pretty disingenuous to claim you didn't. I'm not defending the guy; I'm attacking your smug tone, which rubbed me the wrong way.
Actually, I think it's kinda slimy of you to claim I was "defending" the guy. I said he'd probably be controlling and very possibly abusive in a relationship; said that there were red flags; and called him a brutish moron by implication. Hell, I think there's a pretty decent shot that the guy could be rapey, and I think women should avoid him like the plague. I just think there's something gross about saying "we know" and "we don't have to guess", especially because there are a fuckload of rapists out there who are utterly charming and suave until they strike. It's just self-satisfied in a way that makes my skin crawl almost as much as the guy described in this story.
Just because you happen to be saying something bad about a guy who's a douchebag doesn't mean that people who call you out for seeming smug or self-satisfied are "defending" him. It's very George W. Bush of you -- smearing someone who criticizes you as being allied with the enemy -- and it's a perfect example of what the world needs less of.
I'll go ahead and defend the dude. I mean, I don't know that he's a great person and I'm not looking to date him, but I think it's a faaar stretch to take this writer's interpretation of the date--wherein even she acknowledges that she doesn't say no or reject the kiss--and jump to "he physically imposes himself" and is a "little bit rapey".
For all we know, had she said, "Whoa, up there, cowboy, we're not to the kissing stage of this thing here" he might well have been horrified that he misread the signals and apologised profusely. Making a move doesn't make him an ass; until he is challenged on that behaviour as being unwanted, we have no way to know what he would or wouldn't do to impose himself physically on a woman who clearly isn't interested.
Jess -- there is a lot of questionable stuff in your posts. The writer explicitly states that she didn't feel comfortable refusing him. If you put someone in a situation where someone feel unsafe if they say no to you, you do not have their consent. I am not saying "this guy is definitely a rapist" or "she couldn't have done anything to make herself safer" (what she could have/should have done is have a separate ride set up for herself, and as I was reading this I internally called her dumb for not arranging her own separate ride -- but how fucked up is that expectation, that women should arrange dates to be able to make an escape at any moment in case their date is a rapist? ugh), but she is not at all at fault for doing what she needed to do to feel safe and leave the situation in a way that didn't put herself in danger. Also, while a verbal "no" is always ideal, if someone is completely not reciprocating your advances, most people would at least ask if something was wrong. This guy paid it no mind at all. That's not even a red flag -- it's a siren. The writer was 1. put in a situation where she did not feel entirely safe, and 2. gave him no reciprocation, and 3. he did not even check in with her? Defending that is, frankly, disturbing. There is no indication that he is a rapist or an abuser -- but that is certainly the mentality of one.
"The writer explicitly states that she didn't feel comfortable refusing him. If you put someone in a situation where someone feel unsafe if they say no to you,"
Two problems here: 1) Actually, she DOESN'T explicitly say that she didn't feel uncomfortable refusing, and 2) she doesn't say she feels unsafe.
Feeling uncomfortable doesn't equal feeling unsafe, and if we equate the two, we take a whole continuum of human experience -- who among us hasn't felt uncomfortable on a date? Who among us hasn't felt the pressure of someone else's expectations or intentions? -- and reduce it to a litmus test whose simplicity is tempting, but untruthful.
As for 1), the author says "He pushes me against the fake cave wall and kisses me. His force startles me. I don't reciprocate but also don't openly reject him." I actually think her phrasing is fairly elegant here, because it conveys what I'm surmising was the ambivalence of her feelings at that time. Only the author can answer this, but I still get the impression that the guy was a smokin' hot firefighter type -- and like most human beings, she was tempted to go with that despite all the red flags. She had room for using words like disgust, contempt, feeling threatened, and so forth, and chose not to use them; I don't know why she would've refrained from saying so, had she felt those things.
If the guy wasn't hot, I really don't see what was keeping her going on this date. And even if I accept the predictable counterargument that many women are socialized to be agreeable doormats who go along with things they don't want, I still side with those who say that being an adult means taking ownership of our own actions, choices, and decisions.
That's also my response to the idea that it's "fucked up" that she might've considered arranging her own ride -- of course it is, but I mean, welcome to life. I've never liked the subtext that women's need to take rational measures to protect themselves reflects some kind of cultural misogyny and/or collective male shortcoming -- especially since, unless we start euthanizing sociopaths and the mentally ill, there are ALWAYS going to be people who want to sexually assault other people, no matter how healthy the culture is. But then, there will always be people who want to kill, rob, and harm just for the pleasure of it, and that's something those of us who aren't sociopaths will never really understand. As The Dark Knight said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn." We shouldn't live in fear, but being at least a little bit vigilant is a core part of being an adult. If that's fucked up, life itself is fucked up -- and maybe it is, but saying so is like lamenting that the sky is blue.
"Actually, she DOESN'T explicitly say that she didn't feel uncomfortable refusing" -- she says that the reason she's not refusing is because she doesn't have a ride, not because she wants to make out with him. Yes, I am kind of reading between the lines here, but to me saying "He makes out with me; I try to avoid pissing him off while deflecting talk of another date," means she was uncomfortable expressing how she was actually feeling.
I mean, maybe the guy was hot, maybe not. But she doesn't say "I said nothing about this because I wanted to bang him;" she says "I said nothing about this because I was concerned about getting home." Sorry, but if you are reading any enthusiasm on her part in terms of continuing the date I think you are projecting. As of right after the first kiss she states that she is deflecting talk of another date; I don't think she is looking to fuck him.
I am sorry, but that "welcome to life" thing is not really a good enough answer to the issue that women are expected to treat every man like a potential rapist, and if they don't other people will think that they are idiots. I found myself thinking a woman was dumb for not having an escape plan for what was supposed to be a casual date. Really? That's trauma victim type stuff there; a seriously fucked up way of thinking. And it's not about defending yourself against sociopaths or actually insane people; if it were, it would be a much more manageable issue. It's about protecting yourself against totally sane people who just don't give a shit. I don't think the guy in the above story was crazy. I think he was just a guy who did not have a lot of respect for a woman's boundaries or a lot of interest in her level of enthusiasm. That shit happens all the time, and it doesn't make everyone a sociopath, it just means we exist in a world where some people are privileged to not really have to consider the thoughts and feelings of others. But yes, that is a much more involved debate than this date. As far as I'm concerned, the bottom line is, she did what she needed to do to feel safe. And this jump to assume that she wanted it because she didn't give an explicit, verbal "no", and because he was probably hot or something, is some fucked up shit.
Well, we don't know exactly at what point she decided that he was a lost cause. A really bad kiss is a pretty common cue for making that decision.
Again, I think you're choosing a somewhat loaded reading of things (especially the bit about "she wanted it" which was totally uncalled for), and one that refuses to permit ambivalence or mixed feelings (remember, she said she also said "I start to think I might be able to like him" after her initial misgivings). People go on dates and feel things that are neither enthusiasm nor terror and hatred. They want to give someone a chance; they're attracted to them physically and put off by their personality, or vice versa; and so on. Over the course of the date, we figure out what we think. And most of us are "uncomfortable expressing how [we're] actually feeling" on dates: only the rudest people will outright refuse a second date while they're still in the other person's company.
You say that it's "trauma victim" stuff to think that women should have to have an escape plan for a date. But the expectation isn't that women should "treat every man like a potential rapist", but that EVERYONE should be cautious around strangers, especially strangers who can physically overpower you. There's a certain percentage of people out there who are just going to be predatory, and very, very few of them can be reached by finger-shaking or consciousness-raising -- they just laugh and ignore it. Meanwhile the guys who consistently act with decency and humanity wonder what it is they're doing wrong, and why they're being told they're the oppressors of the world.
My point about sociopaths and the ubiquity of violence is that people often say things like "Women should be able to do X without being afraid that they'll be assaulted." But that's never, ever going to happen -- it's an utterly meaningless statement, designed to inspire guilt without actually accomplishing anything. We don't live in a world where any of us will ever be 100% safe. None of us is immune to this -- certainly not men, who are potentially targets of violence at any age. (Try being a nerdy, non-sporty kid who goes to the same school as kids whose parents have been beating them since they were kids, and who thirst for the opportunity to take out their pain on someone else, and see how "privileged" you feel.)
This ties into all kinds of narratives about gender which are far more double-edged than I think you're acknowledging, e.g. women are precious and deserve to be protected, while men who can't defend/assert themselves are weak and deserve to be scorned. We make unconscious assumptions about what men and women deserve in life, in other words, and a common one is that when women feel threatened or uncomfortable, it reflects an underlying injustice. But feeling threatened and uncomfortable is part of daily life for one hell of a lot of people -- which isn't to say that it's not unjust, but I might suggest that the idea that an adult shouldn't have to pragmatically think of her own safety is, itself, a notion born of privilege.
Question the "stuff" in my posts as you like, 'nope'. I do not like this stance you're taking where a woman coming up with her own ride for a date is considered some sort of horrible permutation of rape culture that is unacceptable, yet the fact that this woman--in your mind, at least--felt she had to go along with a kiss in order to get a ride home is totally normal behaviour.
I don't agree with either stance, actually. I have ridden in cars with people I didn't know very well. Quite a few times in my life, in fact, and lived to tell the tale. The fact that I always have a way out is not due to a fear of rape or an over-sensitivity to the dangers of the "real world", but just an adult common sense plan. Whether I have ridden to a date with a guy I later find makes me uncomfortable or I go out clubbing with some friends and the DD starts drinking or I'm car-pooling with a stranger to a work conference who gets a flat tire, being able to come up with Plan Bs when my first ride falls through is just Being An Adult.
So if you want to say that this chick was genuinely uncomfortable and afraid of violence from this guy--and again, I'm not reading that AT ALL in her words--then it doesn't make sense that she should be coming up with ways to placate him just so she can get a ride back into town. Either 1. He is a safe enough dude to ride back with, in which case she should be more than free to tell him she doesn't want to make out or 2. He is an unsafe dude to tell she doesn't want to make out with, in which case, she needs to call a taxi.
For the record, I think the commenters are reading waaaaay too much possible-violence into this guy's behaviour, based on what the chick writes. She doesn't say he was "looming over her" or "touching her aggressively" or "making her fearful" or anything similar. He was forward and enthusiastic about his interest. Since she didn't tell him not to be, I'm not going to be judging that. You think this guy should be able to read her lack of reciprocation as lack of interest, rather than just a placid kissing style; I say that if she doesn't want to be kissed, she needs to pull away or state her feelings outright. I believe that women are--or should be--the positive forces in their own lives. If she HAD been very attracted to him, she would have been bothered that he didn't make a move, no? So without clear communication of interest, how else do we judge the interest of our dates without making moves?
I'm just saying, as an adult, I can both tell a guy that I'm not interested and get myself home when I need to. I don't think that that makes me particularly note-worthy. You know what bugs me about your comments, 'nope'? It's the fact that you want to both say that it's bullshit that women have to think up Plan Bs for when they get into uncomfortable situations, but also that women don't need to make their feelings clear. You're pretending that you think women should be safe everywhere they go, but not giving them any agency for themselves to make their way in the world. NO ONE is safe everywhere they go! NO ONE gets to never be made uncomfortable! I'm not saying women should have to take up martial arts and carry a weapon--I'm saying that ALL ADULTS should, as a bare minimum, be able to say 'no' to someone in a public place and get themselves a taxi when they need it.
This chick outright said that she was "debating" whether or not it was worth spending $40 on a taxi. Are you really telling me that this is a case where she was genuinely fearful for her safety, rather than just mildly uncomfortable to be out with a guy she didn't fancy? Because, speaking for myself, I would have been willing to pay AT LEAST $50 to avoid a rape that seemed imminent.
I had no idea submitting this story would have provoked such intense reactions from people. I think the situation has been polarized in many, many innacurate directions (although, who can blame you? I provided a very simple, abbreviated synopsis). Let me assert two truths to start with.
1) I didn't "openly reject him" because I didn't want to automatically assume the role of "victim" on what was truly just a bad date.
2) I didn't feel like I was ever, ever in danger of being raped. In fact, while this was our first date and I barely knew the guy, we had mutual friends and went to the same high school.
The main reason for all of my indecision was much more simple. I wanted to avoid an awkward situation while also trying not to be a complete bitch. Go ahead and assign all kinds of social paradigms and arguments to my 3 hour experience. You could argue that my use of the word "bitch" is the result of an anti-feminist suppression of strong women who speak up for themselves. You could argue that I really didn't give a sh*t and no complex thought went into any of my decisions. My perception of my own experience is that this was a CASUAL date. We didn't enter it with any expectations of long term commitment and I wasn't blindly chasing a fairy -tale, willing to call any racist pig a knight in shining armor. I was simply cutting my losses and trying to minimize the damage to our mutual social connections. Bowing out gracefully doesn't always make you "submissive" o,r on the other end of the spectrum, a "tease". I don't feel like he stole my innocence by kissing me - it was just unpleasant. Feel free to pick apart every minute of my account. Just please take a step back from your computer and try and put all of this into the context of the real world. I had an intersting and unique experience. I read other stories in this format and thought it was an interesting way to put things. I submitted it, and it was put on this site. Feel free to consider how you would have reacted in my situation, but arguing what I absolutely should or should not have done is a little silly.
Happy ranting :)
love that you stuck up for yourself. a story i submitted got similarly skewered with people drawing all kinds of insane conclusions about me and what each line said about my values. it's hard to distill all the complexity of a dating/sexual experience into a one page article. But for many people it's fun to read and insult the author. So I feel for you.
Bravo to the author. The more of this comment thread I read, the more I imagined you with a warring imp sitting on each shoulder battling it out trying to win the day. I also recognised that had this been the case, you would still be standing paralyzed with indecision by the penguin enclosure. The zoo would have closed, the penguins doing whatever they do when they're off the click. Ypu were on the moment and acted on your instincts and who can ask more of you than that.
Jess, it was a forced kiss, and the guy went from being nice to racist within minutes while they were in miles away from the city and she had noncar. That could be dangerous, would you say no if you thought you might be left stranded, or attacked?
She made a good decision to bail out of an awkwardly long ride home (with multiple points of risk along the way) and get dropped off to meet a friend nearby who was expecting her. Give some credit where due, she created a safe exit. Should she have bailed earlier? Probably, but hindsight and all that.
"...would you say no if you thought you might be left stranded, or attacked?"
Dear lord, should she also have fucked him just in case he didn't give her a lift back?
It wasn't a forced kiss, it was a surprise kiss whose "force" surprised her. That sounds a whole more to me like a guy making an enthusiastic move that wasn't equally welcome to the girl. The racist thing makes him a bad date, it doesn't correlate with this idea of him being a violent rapist.
Yes, I would say no to a kiss I did not want. First, I would not be left stranded. I have a wallet in which I have a bit of cash, a credit card, and a number for a local taxi. I have this because I am not a victim, nor am I stupid. Why would I think I would be attacked? Do we assume that every man who goes on dates to the zoo and try to grab a kiss by the penguins is just one step away from violence just because they're men?
What's killing me here is that everyone is so ready to think that this woman is a victim and that this guy is just about the next mass murder based on just about nothing. If we accept that he is prone to violence and is just about to rape her silly, then why would we think that it makes sense for her to get back in the car for ANY reason? And if it IS safe enough for her to get back into the car to go to the coffee shop--and worth going along with unwanted kisses for--then why do we assume that he would be violent at the drop of a hat?
I am just not loving the cognitive dissonance associated with thinking that this guy is both likely to be violent and the best possible ride home. One or the other, please.
Or, how about this: Since women are people with free will and agency, we go ahead and assume that a woman is capable of saying, "I do not want to kiss you, please stop your nonsense" and further able to rustle up a ride if they need one when a date goes sour?
I have no patience for this pretence that women are just left helpless to the violent passions of men. She was in public, for heaven's sake! She could have left at any time! You people are killing me with this.
Yikes! The entitlement of this loser!
Ummmm this was almost too bad to be true. I don't know if I buy it. For one thing, no one likes both Chris Brown and Kenny Chesney. Once I got to the "grandma" thing I was almost entirely sure. This thing reads like a falsified version of the worst date possible (who goes to the zoo anyway?) with a bunch of cliched stereotypes about immature men thrown in for good measure. Also, the choice of "firefighter" for the profession doesn't sit right with me. Am I alone here or does this not read like a true story? Idk but I wouldn't have agreed to a date with this dude in the first place and I severely doubt anyone with the intelligence this woman's writing style reveals would have either. She couldn't pick up on his rapist/racist/grandma-reliant vibes when she met him? Bullshit.
Loneliness can render one stupid. Granted the author never said she was lonely, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
Reading this story, I thought the likeliest explanation was that he's very good-looking. Few among us won't put up with a LOT of bullshit if we think we're going to score with someone hot. Even when it was obvious that he was a total douche, the author may have been curious about what it would be like to fuck him, and maybe slightly swayed by his macho confidence. Ultimately it became obvious that the guy wasn't going to be any fun even as a one-off.
Being horny can also render one stupid. :-)
There is a whole world out there besides the seemingly small community of which you live to judge people. Sounds legit to me. And yes, it is possible to like kenny chesney and chris brown while still being broke enough to accept money from your endearing grandma because you spent all your money on beer and strippers after a long round of fighting fires.
ANOTHER forceful kiss? The first should have been the last. This is how rape culture is perpetuated.
Dear god, I'm glad I'm not dating.
"african american family" why do people always point out race when it's anything other than caucasian?
Probably because it's a relevant fact since her date makes a racist joke about black people? otherwise it would have been completely out of context and random and the readers would have been confused. Quit trying to pick a fight.
Now you say something