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Miss Information

I'm in love with a woman I've never met. How much should I risk to be with her?

By Cait Robinson

Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.

Dear Miss Info,

I'm twenty-nine years old, attractive, stable, employed, and living in South Carolina. For the past two or three years, I have been talking to a beautiful, successful woman from L.A. after she randomly added me on Myspace. At first our conversations were fun and flirtatious, but soon it became the norm for us to spend hours a day on the phone with one another, detailing everything about our days and ourselves, without a care in the world. Eventually, both of us became comfortable enough with one another to reveal things about ourselves we had never told anyone else. I honestly don't remember ever being so comfortable and happy in my life.

I've had a lot of dating experience with women, but I've never felt so connected to someone so quickly. Since we recognized that we both had feelings for one another, we were always honest about what was going on in our love lives. Except for two brief periods in which we dated other people, we probably haven't gone more than two weeks without talking since knowing one another.

I guess at some point, it turned into something else. Sometime last summer, I realized I was completely in love with her, so I told her how I felt. She told me she had feelings for me as well, but that she was very scared to get involved with anyone, and she'd been that way as long as I'd known her. Our relationship now is somewhere between a long-distance friendship and a serious committed relationship. We've discussed it, and agree that it's something in-between, but it's never been defined. We aren't seeing anyone else. Neither of us wants to see anyone else. But we have also never met in person.

Now comes the really screwed-up part.

She dated an old friend briefly (and I was seeing someone, too). When things fell apart, she rebounded with her estranged ex-husband. After that blew over, we both found ourselves single, and we began talking again. Instantly, that magic was back. We agreed that we wanted to move towards something more serious. However, she quickly discovered she was pregnant with her ex-husband's child.

I remained undeterred. For a second, I thought that wall had come down. Everything seemed fine. She told me she wanted me to be a father figure in her child's life (which would make me happier than I can possibly imagine deserving). She told me she still loved me. Then, a few weeks ago — after all the tears and drama — she stopped calling.

When we spoke again, she told that she couldn't let me into her life right now. She says she wants to be with me and only me, but doesn't know when she can make a place for me. She is afraid that I will only complicate her already complicated life. She thinks she will be happier if it is just her and her daughter.

Not only do I respect that, it's that kind of strength that makes me love her so much. But now I'm completely confused. I know once the baby arrives in December, I'm probably going to be yesterday's news, but I also recognize that she needs emotional support now more than ever (even if she doesn't recognize it herself).

I guess my question is: how can I do what's best for her without breaking my own heart? I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to be there for her, knowing that I'm going to be destroying myself, but I want to be.

— Cyber-LTR

Dear Cyber-LTR,

A complicated and messy situation created by Myspace? You don't say.

A wise friend of mine explained this well: "When you meet somebody, you meet their ambassador first." By that she meant that you meet the best parts of a person, the parts they are conscious of presenting: "Smile big, dial up the wit, dial down the mommy issues." Your ambassador is you with better hair.

In a long-distance relationship such as this, you only know each other's ambassador. Your conversations may be deep and vulnerability-inducing, but there is still a twinge of calculation to them; like Fox News, you control the message you're broadcasting. So you both may be leaving out details like her bad breath in the morning, your penchant for yelling at cab drivers, or her small — so small, really! — pyromania tick. If you were face-to-face, you could form your estimations of each other based off of a million intangibles, but, over the phone, those intangibles are gone. What is left is a high phone bill and a two-dimensional understanding of each other.

The connection feels real, and in many ways it is. But in light of its clear limitations, you need to draw some new boundaries. She has a child, and that child needs to consume her energy. She is telling you she can't be with you right now. That's as clear a message as you can get.

Now you need to turn your energy off of her and back to yourself. No relationship is worth "destroying yourself" over, and that kind of thinking is neither romantic nor noble. The self-sacrificing tone in your letter suggests low self-esteem. You're putting her needs far ahead of yours. Find a good therapist to talk to, at least to ease your transition out of this intense situation and back into your own life.

It's possible that you two could re-connect down the line, but you both have a lot of stabilizing to do before that happens. She needs to focus on settling in with her daughter, and, similarly, you need to dig in roots of your own.

 

Dear Miss Info,

I need guidance on the tiny matter of defining what true love is, and how much love is enough for a relationship to be the lasting kind.

I've been with my boyfriend of five months, and he has been a fantastic boyfriend so far. We're in our twenties. He seems to be everything I want in a man: loving, kind, very intelligent, reliable, mature, handsome... I could go on. He has been crazy in love with me pretty much from the start, and completely committed, while I have been wavering about my feelings throughout the relationship. 

I decided to be committed and I do think I love him, but it's not the kind of infatuated, pink-glasses love that I experienced as a teenager. I wonder if the feelings I have for him are strong enough to make a life-long commitment, since that is what he explicitly wants and is ready to offer. 

He often says that he doesn't think anything less than the kind of love he is experiencing is real love. He says that true love is when you are passionate about the other person, to the point that you'd lay down your life for them. His speeches make me feel guilty, since I feel like my love is of a much more pragmatic nature than his. I have much more relationship experience than him, and feel like my passionate feelings have given way to a more cynical view. I feel scared to tell him that, although I can tell him anything else. I don't want him to think I don't love him enough, and break up with me because of it — I don't want to lose him! — but I don't want to lead him on, either, if my kind of love is too weak in his view. It's just really hard for me to know what to do or say when he brings this up. 

In the long term, I want to find a partner and have kids before I'm thirty, and in that respect our goals are identical; I can see him as a great father to my children and a loving husband. I see a bright future with him, but I do not idealize it to the level that he idealizes a future with me. Now, his ideal of love is making me question my views and making me think I don't love him enough for it to be the ''true'' kind of love I'm supposed to strive for. Please help!

— LoveStrong?

Dear LoveStrong,

Your boyfriend is criticizing how you process love? Does he also find fault with how you see the color red? At five months, you two shouldn't be concerned with "the long haul" or "What Is Love?" You should still be thinking in the here-and-now. You like each other? You're having a good time? Nobody is standing outside anyone's window at three a.m., screaming and/or crying? Then great!

I understand his antsiness, and that he wants verification that you love him enough now that you won't hurt him later. It's a very human fear, but it's also a rookie relationship mistake. Verbal contracts and parsing wording doesn't make a stronger bond. Another a rookie mistake: assuming everyone does — or should — see the world the same way you do. Just because you feel affection differently doesn't mean you feel it less. 

Paradoxically, your boyfriend's insistence that you prove how much you love him is making you question how much you love him. These are all things that will come to you eventually; you just need to give it some time to settle. Part of that is loosening your self-imposed restraints. The more you focus on "kids by thirty!" the less space you give yourself to honestly evaluate your emotional state and your preparedness. You both have plenty of time. Put down the calendars and dictionaries, and enjoy it. 

Commentarium (30 Comments)

Sep 24 11 - 1:09am
nope

LW#1 made me think immediately of the girl a while back that was debating breaking up with a guy because she couldn't stand the way he smelled. I'm not of the opinion that a cyber relationship can never get past the 'ambassador' stage, or that two people can't grow to be truly in love with each other that way. But it's certainly risky. There are a myriad of tiny things, things that might seem too inconsequential to even mention over the phone, that could stack up face to face. And, of course, there's the issue of sexual compatibility, which wasn't discussed at all and is wholly vital. If there's one thing reading Dan Savage has taught me, it's that way too many couples commit when they have everything right and connected but the sex, and what seemed like a stupid reason not to get married eventually starts to become a very good reason to get a divorce.

Sep 24 11 - 6:34am
Unanswered questions

Though Miss Info's advice is normally quite on the mark, her reply to the second letter here made me wonder whether she had read the submission with due diligence. At what point is the woman's boyfriend "criticizing how [she] processes love?" And at what juncture do we learn of her boyfriend's "insistence" that she proves how much she loves him? Nothing in the letter explicitly indicates such things, unless you assume that, in proclaiming his ideal of love, the boyfriend is actually criticizing his girlfriend for not feeling the same way--but, we are explicitly told that she hasn't revealed to him these feelings. As such, MI's reply seems to be addressing concerns which are not plausibly present in the letter itself. Curious.

In truth, the woman appears to be inquiring in regard to a dilemma which I suspect many of us face in our 20s: we think that we may have fallen in love with someone but we do not feel this all-consuming passion that we remember feeling when we were younger and less wise. Is this what grown-up love is supposed to feel like? Have we lost something which cannot be regained as wiser, more worn-for-the-wear individuals? If not, is it fair--to both ourselves and to our partners--to remain in a relationship where the other person, for whatever reason, feels that kind of passion which we do not? Or do we ought it to ourselves--and to them--to find that same kind of naive, reality-altering, stupid-action-inducing love which we remember feeling when younger? Or, again, is this pragmatic love, which the letter writer speaks of, the only sort of love experienced adults feel, and so she should value it equally as the naive love of old which she recalls from her youth? These appear to be questions to which the letter writer sought answers.

Sep 28 11 - 4:04pm
QC IC

I agree I think she misread the second letter. I didn't pick up that vibe at all.

Letter 1) You sound really vulnerable and naive and you should stay away from that girl. I had a friend who sounded just like this, when he eventually flew out to see the girl she was living with one guy and married to another. He spent the whole week sleeping on the couch while she slept with her boyfriend. He was borderline suicidal when he got back. You know nothing about her, be very afraid.

Letter 2) I would instead focus on the idea that people just love differently. Some people are fiercely loyal with their love, some are pretty poly-amorous. Some are rather pragmatic.

I think my wife probably viscerally loves me in an animal sense a lot more than I love her, but she also has a lot less relationship experience and I feel my love is equally strong. It just comes from a place of pragmatism and satisfaction as opposed to raw emotion. Certainly I love her, and get scared when fails to call when expected. But I don't want to write her poetry or fighting a hundred demons for her like I wanted to in some other (possibly less mature) relationships. Instead I just greatly appreciate who she is, how well our lives fit together, what a good/loyal/honest person she is, and so on.

Cait is right that your relationship is still young and rather than trying to parse it to death you should just enjoy it and see where it goes. You don't need to decide everything today.

Sep 24 11 - 9:14am
milde

Exactly. It is all too easy to build up an ideal of a person who is not physically there. This goes for chat partners, phone partners, ex partners... LW1 may meet her and find her physically repulsive in some way, or realize she's rude, or any number of things. Or he might not. After a long time just talking on the phone, the woman may have ''Phone Zoned'' him (phone counterpart to friend zone), and wouldn't consider a real relationship possible or desirable. LW1 should have tried to meet her immediately after the connection was felt by both.

Sep 24 11 - 10:11am
mp

all these letters are full of big buckets of crazy.

letter 1: the fact that they've gotten this far without a "weekend trial" is absurd by itself and a huge red flag. Honestly, they both need to stop contacting each other, but an easier way might be to just SPEND A COUPLE DAYS TOGETHER. You'll quickly find out how 99% of your "love" is a house of cards.

Letter 2: Tell him to chill the fuck out and let's get to know each other. He's obsessive, not in love. He'd be the exact same way with the next person he scores a second date with.

I'm being harsh and a jerk, but both letters hit too close to home with past experiences of mine and friends :)

Sep 24 11 - 10:30am
AlexT

LW1 is doing more than counting on his lady friend's "ambassador" as the representation of her true self. He's thinking of betting a farm on someone he hasn't even seen in three dimensions. It's all fine and good to meet someone online and/or have a long-distance relationship, don't get me wrong. (Not my cup of tea, but I've seen it happen.)

But if he's gone years without once even meeting face-to-face to find out what the other person looks like from behind, then he's not "madly in love" with a person at all. He's in love with a fantasy character in his head, with the voice being provided by the person on the other end of the telephone, and a few Myspace pics or even a Skype video to put a face on the name.

The other 85% of what he might think about this person is being provided by his own imagination. And his imagination is coming up with, basically, the opposite of everything that's missing from or imperfect with all the other women (or people in general) he interacts with day-to-day. No one "real" would hold up to that kind of idealization. Even Fantasy Girl. Especially Fantasy Girl, who might have realized that and decided to pull the plug. Or, she could have pulled the plug because SHE'S BEEN COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT THIS WHOLE TIME and their entire "relationship" has been her version of a "Based on a True Story" Lifetime Movie of the Week. Coming up with ways why they can't Ever Be Together in such high dramatic fashion (like surprise ex-husband babies) is a huge red flag in that scenario.

At any rate, Miss Info's suggestion to get into therapy is a good one. LW1 is addicted to the drama and the Romeo & Juliet tangent his online romance has taken, and it's taking him away from being able to connect with real human beings. That can't turn out well, regardless of how his online story turns out.

Sep 24 11 - 10:50am
DG.

The drama coming from the gal in that first letter seems a little too manufactured. I'd just ask that guy: "have you been sending her money?" I'm betting he has, I'm betting it's a scam, and it's finally hit the wall.

Sep 24 11 - 1:48pm
Kel

I was thinking the same thing. He only says they've talked on the phone, so one big unanswered question would be, did they ever converse through video chat or has he only seen photographs?

Sep 24 11 - 3:10pm
J

Me three. I've never dealt with MySpace, but the few "random beautiful women" who've tried to friend me on facebook (I'm a woman) all clearly reeked of scam. I read the letter trying to figure out whether they had any friends at all in common, and I'm not seeing it. Never mind "ambassadors"--he should be worried about con artists.

Sep 24 11 - 11:26pm
jbh

two things: first off, i just recently finished a relationship with someone that i had previously only known online. last year, we finally met (for a hookup that quickly became omigodweareinloveanditwastrue) and we spent over a year living with each other. it is entirely possible to develop a relationship and have it work out online and then move it into the real world.

second, i had a room mate who moved out here to boston from l.a. for basically this kind of scenario. i ended up kicking him out because he was so obviously getting scammed, and very loudly refused to get a job (and be able to pay bills) because he was convinced that "bonita" was going to come along and save him, even though every turn brought another reason that she couldn't meet him yet. this shit went on for at least 6 or 7 months, 1.5 of which he lived in my apartment.

Sep 26 11 - 10:02am
thinkywritey

Likewise, I'm thinking the same thing the others are. Things keep "coming up" to keep them from meeting? Someone is not telling the truth.

Sep 24 11 - 11:42am
Han

Is the first letter serious? I'm sorry but I can't imagine anyone 'stable' seriously considering themselves to be in love (and potentially supporting a child!) with a person they haven't so much as had coffee with. Move on, it's likely that this woman has realised she can't keep playing make believe and needs to focus on a tangible human being, the one she's about to bring into the world.

The second letter is also crazy! Five months in and you're fretting about committing the rest of your life to this person? If you need to itemise the reasons he's worth making babies with than I think you already have your answer.

Sep 24 11 - 11:42am
Han

Is the first letter serious? I'm sorry but I can't imagine anyone 'stable' seriously considering themselves to be in love (and potentially supporting a child!) with a person they haven't so much as had coffee with. Move on, it's likely that this woman has realised she can't keep playing make believe and needs to focus on a tangible human being, the one she's about to bring into the world.

The second letter is also crazy! Five months in and you're fretting about committing the rest of your life to this person? If you need to itemise the reasons he's worth making babies with than I think you already have your answer.

Sep 24 11 - 11:42am
Han

Is the first letter serious? I'm sorry but I can't imagine anyone 'stable' seriously considering themselves to be in love (and potentially supporting a child!) with a person they haven't so much as had coffee with. Move on, it's likely that this woman has realised she can't keep playing make believe and needs to focus on a tangible human being, the one she's about to bring into the world.

The second letter is also crazy! Five months in and you're fretting about committing the rest of your life to this person? If you need to itemise the reasons he's worth making babies with than I think you already have your answer.

Sep 24 11 - 12:14pm
LW2

Thank you for the advice, Cait & commenters. You're right, Han, my letter comes off as pretty crazy, I guess as a result of inexperience and a tendency to overthink everything. Conclusion, I need to tone the intensity of the relationship way down...

Sep 24 11 - 1:08pm
hi

My mom once told me that it's only geography that keeps us from falling in love more often.

Sep 24 11 - 12:32pm
BrosephofArimathea

I was in LW1's situation a little while back. The ifs and maybes of a long distance internet/phone relationship are crazy and the best way to settle them is to have a little visit like mp suggests. I had a visit with someone I'd been in contact with for years. We turned out to be exactly who we presented ourselves to be. The distance and general life disorder meant it wasn't meant to be though.

The guy's mistake in LW2 is that he believes a commitment will ensure you'll be around forever and ever. But engagement, marriage, and so on are no guarantee of anything and he has to chill the eff out so he can enjoy the present time with you. Get that in his head or move on so he can mature up.

Sep 24 11 - 2:41pm
ER

Solution for #1: Skype. If the woman refuses to skype because she has no webcam, buy her a webcam, when she refuses to skype after she has the webcam, she's a fraud. The $20 dollars will be the best money ever spent.

Sep 24 11 - 3:03pm
Spellcheck

Tic. The word is tic.

Sep 25 11 - 12:47am
CaitRobinson

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2bfG0DHvNhg/S-dF_7VOyKI/AAAAAAAAAuU/Yt6FX92ZKM...

Sep 25 11 - 11:07am
vv

I dig the answer to LW2.

Sep 25 11 - 1:08pm
lh

Advice columns are my guilty girly pleasure, so I've read quite a few, but I find that you're the best one so far. Understanding, wise, funny, approachable and of course, with the best advice that's never mean, snarky or condescending.

Keep up the excellent work Cait :)

Sep 25 11 - 7:24pm
dost

I like this

Sep 25 11 - 9:32pm
AAC

"Your boyfriend is criticizing how you process love?"
"your boyfriend's insistence that you prove how much you love him"

Where in LW2's letter does it say either of these things? She says he has strong opinions about love, that he thinks that a certain kind of love is the real deal. Maybe he even goes so far as to say the way he feels about her IS the way that people should feel. So basically, what Unanswered Questions said.

If anything it sounds like LW2 is letting him believe that she feels the same thing he does. She describes herself as cynical, but maybe it's just that she (like many people) thinks that love should involve drama, and huge ups and downs, and hot and cold. Since this guy's crazy about her, he's not making her feel the anxiety and uncertainty she associates with her own conception of "real" love.

LW2: doesn't this guy deserve someone who feels the way he does, if that's what he's saying he wants? If you know you're not on his wavelength, doesn't he have the right to decide for himself, rather than give you the family you say you want...and then find out 20 years down the road that your passion for him has dwindled from minimal to zero, and you'd rather never have sex with him again? This guy is a person, not a role to be filled in your life. "Great father and loving husband" is not the phrase a guy wants to hear when he's being described by the woman he loves, especially after just five months. Why not call him a "good provider" and get the trifecta?

Finally, to be honest I think Cait's misreading of the question reflects an unconscious bias of her own: i.e. that men are hypercritical, self-centered, insensitive, and generally the "bad guys" in most relationship conflicts, vs. her instinctive sympathy for female LWs. That tendency had been less evident in recent columns, so it's disappointing to see it crop up here again.

Sep 25 11 - 10:45pm
@AAC

Even though you accuse Cait of injecting her own bias, you are making big leaps and a lot of unfounded assumptions. I see your point in your first paragraph, but it seems excessive to peg LW2 as a drama queen who doesn't see her boyfriend as a person. Basically, Cait tells both of them to take their heads out of the abstract clouds and live in reality.

Sep 26 11 - 4:32am
LW2

Actually, AAC is right on several points. Except that I do care about my boyfriend a lot as a person, and I want to be with him for who he is - not because he makes a ''good provider'' or any such shallow notion. He will indeed make a good father & husband, but he's also a wonderful person and great lover. I could just use a dial-down on the intensity of passionate confessions/ feelings talks.

Sep 26 11 - 12:05pm
Been there

LW2--
I've been trying to figure out the same thing. My boyfriend and I have been together for almost a year now. He's the most wonderful man I've ever been with and I'm in my 30's. At 5 months, he asked if he asked me to marry him would I think it's too soon? I had to honestly answer, I think we're still learning each other. When I make that commitment, I want to be as sure as I can be we're in the right place. That being said, how do I know if this is really love? I think about him when he's not with me. Little things throughout the day remind of times we shared. I am at my happiest when we're together. I work in a very social environment and I'm hit on all the time... but I'm not interested because my man loves me so sweetly and completely. We haven't said those 3 little words to each other but express our feelings in different ways. I love this or that about you.... I appreciate this quality or that... It makes me feel good when you.... Here lately, when we get off the phone I've found those three little words linger in my heart.... If he asked me today, I would say yes in a heartbeat. The bottom line is don't think you have to hurry in making up your mind. We all love in different ways and your man has a pretty good idea of who you are by now. Focus on today, right now and how happy you are.... Don't worry about tomorrow, it will be here soon enough! Good luck!

Sep 27 11 - 2:07pm
Ta

LoveStrong, ditto.

Sep 28 11 - 10:46pm
nb

As rational as all your responses are, if I were LW1 I would never be able to stand not knowing what the deal was. He should get on a plane and go there and show up on her doorstep -- with the cab waiting in case her husband has a gun, yes, but, really? just go into therapy and never find out what the fuck was going on with her?

Sep 30 11 - 5:15pm
Nat

Letter #1 really happened to a friend of mine - not surprisingly the woman turned out to be a psycho - using fake photos and a fake life. It really messed with my friend's head, poor bastard.

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