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Reader Feedback on "Without Ceremony"
Great article....
--SK
05/12 |
I'm approaching the end of my 2nd marriage and have realized that I may not be marriage material. I much prefer dating and getting out there in the singles scene. I'm seeing one pretty seriously right now but we're both a bit jaded on the marriage thing.
--MY
05/04 |
I had a discussion with a friend of mine who is 33, and "husband hunting" at the moment, intent on having kids within 2 years. I have other female friends who are spending their mid-to-late 20's indulging their fears of commitment rather than overcoming them. I told the husband-hunting friend that I had been thinking about what I needed in a wife for some time, that I needed someone who I could make happy for the rest of her life. She thought about it for a while, before telling me that she was floored by the beauty of what I said, that she always thought of it as who could make her happy. Since then, that comment seems to make sense of the majority of women (and men) who jeer at relationships despite secretly yearning for them. You can learn to care about others and overcome your own self-involvement. I'm currently learning through a form of Buddhism. If you can take the nonsense out of most religious teachings, there is wisdom there as well as to how you can learn to be a compassionate person.
--KRS
04/29 |
Dear Lisa, Can confirm much of what you have said. I too feel unarticulated questions about why I've never married. ("Is he gay?" ) A nationally syndicated columnist whenasked about this said "I'm wary because you've never married" (she also said my wine drinking was warying though she kept even with me). In my case, I often turn down being a guest for dinner because the lady guest is recently divorced or widowed. Don't like to be the available all purpose, lost soul single. You catch my drift. Or is a woman's predicament different ? Best, Julian Cambridge
--jwp
04/21 |
Someone finally gave me the answer to that question.... "How come you're not married?" ".... because I've never been asked." so far, works every time.
--MA
04/19 |
I actually don't think that the author is damaged, so much as aware of the damage she's caused pursuing some idea of happiness. My first marriage was a scramble to get to the altar in time to have my kids. We didn't last but somewhere in the back of my mind I knew what I was doing. My current fiance and I are going into it with eyes wide open, hearts too, but eyes first. We don't expect the same things the secomd time around, but one thing I do know is I won't place huge expectations on him like I did the first. I think this arcticle is written by someone who knows that the imaginary marriage she might have ended up with would have ended. and any relationship she pursues now, sober, has a much better chance of making it...and I agree....(been THERE too) cheers all.
--Ella
04/19 |
Be married or don't be married. Have kids or don't. Why do other people's choices bother us so much? Maybe the author is too damaged to be married, but she isn't. So what's the issue? I've feared marriage and kids my entire life, for the typical reasons - crappy childhood. I am genuinely happy for friends who are happy with both, either or none. And I still maintain never say never for myself. As for the "Settle" article, I say the trees choked out the forest in the debate. I believe what she was advocating was the type of relationship a great many successful marriages turn into after a long time - a friendship and partnership above all. That's not sad, nor wrong, nor messed up. Rare is the couple who is truly, madly, deeply AND healthy AND perfect partners to each other and best friends most of time. I think her point - definitely mine, is that we expect far too much from relationships now. Until very recently, they were essentially business partnerships of life. Now all bets are off and we believe a far bigger myth.
--jk
04/19 |
As far as the HBO series goes, the deal killer is kids. That is also the entire message of the 'settle' article. That is a lot bigger issue then Russell's angst about God. The 'kid' thing is a total leap of faith. Whatever you think is going to happen, it isn't. Not to say that it isn't rewarding and that sometimes you are shocked that your kids didn't inherit all your bad habits.
--x
04/19 |
The author seems like a very damaged individual. I wonder if she's capable of a healthy relationship. I'm guessing not. That might explain why she's not marreid at 40. Maybe she's just not ready to be.
--TL
04/19 |
Maybe I missed something, but as someone whose record is similar, I just realised a goodly number of years ago that marriage was just not a category of mine. I had not been raised to think of life as demanding that. But two generations of divorce will do that.
--BMF
04/18 |
It's okay to not get married. It's okay to not make a relationship an obligation and still be secure. It's okay to be attracted to the ritual, but realize that's the best part of it. Enduring cohabitation is just as romantic, and even more built on trust. I told my aged "spinster" Aunt if I ever considered getting married to talk me out of it. For me, it would mean I found religion or suddenly got insecure- and I hope those things never happen to me.
--dk
04/18 |
I totally agree you need to be at a place where you know you can be a good partner to someone. I had slouched around, dating and not being a good girlfriend. I dated someone for a while with no plans of marriage whatsoever and when he dumped me, I had to take a long hard look at the person I was. I didn't like it, so I changed and now I'm happier than I've ever been... and i met someone to share it with. We're headed for the big m a year from now and I can't imagine not wanting to do it or being cynical about doing it. I think there is hope for everyone but it's also good to be aware of the reality of the situation.
--sd
04/18 |
great piece, and I agree with much of what the writer said except for a small arguement with "fixing relationships"....not possible from my angle. We gotta work on ourselfs and from there, the relationship can work itself out OR NOT. I don't know. it's a mystery why some things work out and other things dont. but I appreciate articles that tackle these big ideas. thanks!
--MKM
04/17 |
Interesting article with a bleak conclusion. I am an unmarried 26 year old dating an equally unmarried 43 year old woman and we have discussed this topic a lot. I believe that relationships are absolutely not meant to "fix us", nor are we meant to fix them. What we can do is attempt to fix/love ourselves (a constant, rewarding and never-ending work in progress) and attempt to share ourselves with someone else from a position where our cup is full and we give from what we have to spare. I find that if I'm working from that position then compromise doesn't feel like self-sacrifice and the relationship can grow positively, whether or not there are rings on fingers. Or that's the idea. As for settling - that is some bleak shit right there. Lying to yourself always bites you in the end and call me an optimist but if you're loving yourself you don't have to settle for anything or anyone who isn't right. That's what I'm working towards anyway and the core would be liking myself enough to believe I'm worth someone who is that special. Word up & thanks for the feature.
--df
04/16 |
I'm married my wife three weeks ago (it's still odd typing "my wife"). We're both in our 40s, and it is both of our first marriages. I can't tell you how to sustain a marriage (not yet, anyway), but I can tell you that marriage is not about finding the right person, it's about being the right person. If you are, then the right person will find you. If not, then only wrong people will find you. It took both of us to this point in our lives to be the right person for someone else. Marriage to me is about having someone "in it" with you. That means someone you trust to have your back, to be there, to share what's good and what's bad -- to be partners in all the important things in life. For a long time I was not good partner material and thus attracted women with similar deficiencies (water finds its own level, so to speak). Moreover, I had a lot of trust issues, exacerbated by the bad dating experiences I had (and certainly contributed to). What I finally realized was that no one was going to be "enough" for me if I was not enough for myself. No one was going to fix or change me but me (and I wasn't going to fix or change other people). Six months after that epiphany and the work on myself and my life it spurred me to do, I met my future wife.
--REM
04/16 |
nice essay --to the previous entry, I think that the writer knows that the drinking was the problem--she cites it and the selfishness...as the reason she struggled with intimacy... I get that. I have been there. and it doesn't take 20 years to recover. a few...but not twenty.
--CI
04/15 |
"Part of the problem was that I was drunk for the better part of the two decades most women spend looking for an appropriate partner." There's the answer. The column could have stopped after this very early paragraph. I have two close female friends who both are recovering alcoholics and drug addicts. And both of them have no business being married to anyone. Addiction is a very selfish as well as self-destructive affliction. Not only does it do damage to people physically, but mentally as well. It takes years to shake off this off --- if it is indeed possible. But my two friends are also have serious problems with social skills and social interaction. It's all about them all of the time. I'm sure that has something to do with all of those years they spent boozing and drugging. When you don't give a fuck about anybody but yourself and your next hit, you stop developing as a person. So, I'll hazard a guess that it'll take the author another two decades of catching up on that social development before she can be equipped for marriage. Because that's what it's about for her --- not whether she wants to be married, but whether she has the ability to be married.
--cc
04/15 |
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