there are people who simply believe that you're supposed to ask god for help, and if nothing changes it's part of god's plan.  i don't know that the ones i've met based that belief on any particular passage.  they would also, i'm sure, say that i'm too narrow in my interpretation, but it's hard to explain something i can't fully internalize.

I think there are two levels in play when establishing a personal moral philosophy.  The first, immediate level is cognizance of your thoughts, ideas, and ways of seeing how the world works that contribute to everyday decisions.  If you think killing someone is wrong on its face, sinful or not, and if you can agree that if a world permitted free killing without restraint that more problems come from it than good, then you won't do it.  The second level is how those basic philosophies might shift in the face of dire circumstances.  Self-defense comes into play.  Normally, you would find it difficult to take someone else's life, but if forced to defend your life or your child's life or a loved one, you killed someone, then you could personally excuse it for the rationale.

I don't criticize religious practice either, but if practicing places someone in such harm that it would be okay to exercise some other course of action, then that's appropriate.  Considering the strong bond between your average parent and child, and an a priori commitment to safeguard offspring, I agree -- prayer isn't working despite how devout you are, get medical attention.

I would also do a double-take if, in the face of the child's death, the mourning revolves more around a personal self-criticism about not being devout anything.  "We didn't pray hard enough so we couldn't save him."  That doesn't bode well.

god damn fucking religious people. Stop it.

If these idiots profess to be Christians, someone should  let them know that Christianity prohibits human sacrifice.   Letting your kid die of a trivially curable sickness for your religion is a murder.

-jcr

There are actually large sections of christian populations that practice non-medicine. For instance the christian scientists (not to be confused with scientologists), believe in "gods will". Its just that this stuff doesn't get reported often.  I know you aren't out to attack religious people but it is religion that enables this kind of behavior to be possible and (even more disgusting) culturally acceptable. That child had been conditioned since an early age to accept that God would protect him and if he died it was "god's will". Is that any different than believing god will send you to heaven if you fly a plane into a building? This stuff makes me sick and to top it off these people claim a moral high ground and look down on others. Pompous? I think so.

This reminds me of the story of a man who lived in a valley near a dam. One day the dam broke and the valley flooded and the man climbed onto his roof and began to pray for help. Soon a neighbor in a boat came by and offered to take the man to safety but the man replied, "No, I'm ok, God will save me." and so the neighbor left.

Not long after that another boat came by with people from the Red Cross who begged and pleaded with the man to come with them, but the man refused and stayed on his roof saying again, "God will save me, I'm ok."

It was getting late and the man was growing cold and hungry when a helicopter from the National Guard arrived. They lowered a bucket for the man and tried to get him to climb in but the man was steadfast in his decision that God would save him. They eventually left the man, calling him crazy and went to look for other survivors.

After the helicopter left the waters rose and the man drowned that night. When he got to heaven he went to God and asked him "Why didn't you save me?" and God replied, "What are you talking about? I sent your neighbor, the Red Cross, and the National Guard."

I hope this story helps people realize that God has given us technology and resources to help each other. To not utilize this is a shame, and for a young life to end so early is even more of a shame.

I'm so tired of reading about these fanatics. The parents of this poor, misguided child should be charged with manslaughter at the very least. This is just one more case of how all religious beliefs are EXTREMELY dangerous. An intelligent person would have looked at the situation and said "This boy needs medical attention, let's give it to him" rather then expecting an imaginary being to save him.

When will the world wake up and realize the dangers of religion??? Name one major religion that hasn't been to war and been responsible for the deaths of innocent people over their religious beliefs.

Please PLEASE stop it with these medieval beliefs! This is the 21st century, and if we can't see religion as the hoax it is and always was, then we're all doomed.

For those who rely on their faith: couldn't the doctors and the antibiotics be part of God's plan and the answer to your prayers?  Isn't it rather presumptuous to assume you know how God will take care of the situation?

I'm not going to be respectful like everyone else.  Religion is a cancer and a poison to humanity.  Even mainstream religion legitimizes the psychosis that we see here.  I don't  know what else to say so i'll use a quote i saw somewhere.

"In a normal situation, good people will do good things and bad people will do evil things, but for the good to do evil, that takes religion."

Even if the boy gave consent and had the legal right to do so, the parents should still be charged for giving false information regarding medical treatment(convinced him there was an invisible sky wizard who was answering his telepathic thoughts and would save him)

Personaly I think praying is perfectly acceptable... But since God has created this world, he has given us the means to treat illness and therefore when God's answer is no (Which it sometimes is...) We should use what he has already provided to cure the illness... You should'nt compare these nutjobs to every God believing Christian, the majority of us arent this dumb =D

"here are people who simply believe that you're supposed to ask god for help, and if nothing changes it's part of god's plan."

I bet the people involved wear manufactured clothing (safe bet, i think).  They don't trust God to float clothes down upon them from heaven.

I guess if their pseudo-faith was tested in that way it would be demonstrated to be bullshit.

I can't imagine the pain that child went though before he died. I get UTI's often and they are soooooo painful. I just can't imagine dying like that. Reason and logic are not present in religion, especially fundamentalism.

@jk

You know you're an idiot right?

Seriously, his parents should be burned alive for doing this to him.  You seriously have to be f*cking kidding me.  No seriously, you have to be kidding me.  I almost don't want to believe this story because if I do, I will raise hell against those really religious f*cks.  Wasting their time on just beliefs rather than SCIENTIFIC FACT!  Meaning, YOUR KID, THAT YOU BROUGHT INTO THIS WORLD, IS GOING TO DIE IF YOU DON'T SEEK HELP!!!! OH MAN THIS PISSES ME OFF!

Oh yea, by the way, if you cannot tell, I don't believe in god or any of that sh*t.  And it's all for reasons like this.  Sit around and pray they say; trust me, I've done my share of praying and nothing good has come from it. Matter of a fact, less negative sh*t has happened to me ever since I lost faith and I'm going to stick it out this way.  Don't mean to offend those who waste their time on praying and what not, but get over it!

How many people die as a result of allopathic medical treatment? Where is the outrage when a child dies whose care had been entrusted to modern medicine? This tragic. I feel for the child and his parents.

To make matters worse, this kid is the cousin of a 15 month old who died in March under similar circumstances.

www.portlandtribune.com/.../story.php

"This is just one more case of how all religious beliefs are EXTREMELY dangerous. "

You've got a bit of a broad brush there, sunshine.     There is a tremendous variation in the level of danger posed by various religions.  This story made the news because it's *rare*.

-jcr

Ahhh, religion...What's new? The parents probably think "it's all part of God's plan".

This religious delusion we have entrenched in society is just saddening. How could intelligent beings like the human race put such faith into an unsupported theory (let alone believe in them in the first place)?

@Jordan -

And THAT guy was the uncle of a baby who was killed by her parents refusal to seek treatment!!!!:

"Neil Beagley was the uncle of 15-month-old Ava Worthington, who died in March after her parents refused to take her to the doctor for two treatable illnesses."

Unbelievable. Not to worry though, looks like the whole lot of them will be dead soon enough.

There are studies that show that people who have been prayed for -or- were praying DURING medical treatment had better recovery rates, and survuval rates. DURING medical treatment... none that say an individual should avoid medical treatment in leau of prayer.

And NO - nowhere in the bible does it say avoid medicine or doctors; there are some passages that hint towards being self-reliant and community-reliant rather than look outside the community for aid, this is to keep the group a group etcetera... but some fundamentalist groups take these things to heart. Literal translations of ANYTHING moer than 200 years old are very dangerous.

FOR e.g. > this sweetheart I knew going to college with me, that moved with her boyfriend/now husband to attend college was completely renounced by her family -for- going to college... those where Jehova's Witnesses.

"there are people who simply believe that you're supposed to ask god for help, and if nothing changes it's part of god's plan. "

It is a good thing that people who think like this will simply hasten the process of natural selection, improving the genepool as they die off waiting for their invisible man to save them. More power to them.

Good for him!  Everyone should be happy.  Should congratulate the family for this.

What is the matter with these people? Just last March, Fox News reported an 11 year old diabetic girl died cause her parents didn't take her in either.

It's always terrible when a child dies, but on the bright side, that's one less person to carry on the ridiculousness of religion. Baby steps...baby steps...

Why do so many people feel the need to express their respect for religious ideas they disagree with, even if those ideas led to the death of a child? People who believe in this nonsense should not be allowed to have children. I have zero respect for these fucking nutbags and their idiotic beliefs. We live in a (supposedly) civilized society and this kind of thing should be absolutely unacceptable. If these people had simply neglected their kid because they were lazy or stupid, they would both be in jail right now. But because they did neglected their childs well being on the grounds of religious beliefs they get a free pass? Tie off their urethras and let them pray for god to save them as they drown in their own piss.

I am a pastor in a church that believes every word of the Bible to be true. Many Americans probably would consider me one of those kooky religious people. I think when the writers were speaking literally, they should be taken literally. But nothing in the Bible says that we should avoid doctors or medical treatment! So it's not a question of interpretation of the Bible, it's more about whether or not to make up your own extra rules. In fact, Luke and Acts, two of the longest books in the New Testament, were written by a doctor, according to Colossians 4:14.

The book of James says that the church should pray for the sick. The ending of Mark describes God caring for his people in miraculous ways. Leviticus forbids eating blood, which Jehovah's Witnesses claim forbids blood transfusions (which I think is entirely misguided).

But there's absolutely nothing in scripture that says doctors should be avoided, that medicine is bad, or that prayer should be our only recourse to illness. It's very sad that these people are trying so hard to follow God, but they have no basis in His word for what killed him.

I don't want laws overriding what people believe (I think), but here we just have... stupidity. Please just know that normal right-wing, Bible-believing Christians think these people are crazy, and we aren't like them.

"We're not out to attack religious people ... wackos who happened to be religious ...."

Maybe rational people should be 'attacking' the religious.  Their idiotic bronze age delusional beliefs are a never-ending cause of conflict, suffering and death in the world every day.  The particular idiots referenced in this story are just one example.

This is truly sad.  I immediately thought of that joke, but thinker beat me to it.

Isn't it funny that they are acting just like those monkeys they are embarrassed about being descended from.

You know, Praying is cool and all and God can do miracles however, he did create Doctors and medicine for a reason!

JT

https://www.FireMe.To/udi

The saddest thing about this is, nothing will probably change those people's beliefs. If the death of their own child didn't shake them, what will? What's worse is, these people might even be right - we'll never know (until we die, of course).

You're all missing the point here. People who subscribe to this whack-job level of religious dogmatic BS are dying... more and more apparently. All while the necessary medicines and treatments are readily available. I think that should be the big overall statement of God's will here.

"God helps those who help themselves."

Christ, faith-heads are idiotic.

Why would you ever in a million years value faith, which is belief without evidence, over reason? Christians and other faith-heads always amaze me.

Not saying that praying for this situation is the appropriate action... I was just noticing the fallacy in your argument...

Murdering innocent children (abortion) == Okay

Letting a 14 yr old decide his own medical care == Not Okay

Did got want him to die, or is there no god ?

i've seen too many cases where just prayer has done marvelous things.  besides, how may thousands upon thousands of deaths happen every year as a result from medical treatment.  we turn to doctors and medicine far too much, that our bodies have started to become immune to antibiotics.  

This discussion is amazingly timely! My wife and I spent today in fasting and prayer for a young boy and his doctors, as they try to save his life after badly-botched surgery. We realize that all of us are fallible: doctors, parents, friends, neighbors. May God, the Father of humanity, help all of us to remember to love each other and to follow the golden rule to treat others as we would like to be treated!

To say that all religious people have no logical reason for faith is to ignore that some faith is firmly grounded the evidence of personal experience. If you have not enjoyed miracles in your life, I am sorry. Maybe they will come to you in the future. I hope so. If so, you may become a happier and more compassionate person.

In the meantime, I am praying for Trevor and his family and his doctors and nurses. He is wonderful kid and I expect he will be a wonderful adult if he survives this crisis. I am hoping for another miracle.

*** There are studies that show that people who have been prayed for -or- were praying DURING medical treatment had better recovery rates, and survuval rates. DURING medical treatment... none that say an individual should avoid medical treatment in leau of prayer.***

No, no there aren't, there are badly conducted 'studies' done by pro faith groups that 'claim' to show this, but NOTHING done using actual scientific testing principles has EVER shown this to be the case EVER.

*** i've seen too many cases where just prayer has done marvelous things. ***

Oh you have not, you've seen things where great things have happened and it just so happened people were praying for said thing to occur. How many times have people prayed for something and it didn't occur? Hmmm? You're ignoring the false results and only remembering the good. Trust me, it doesn't do squat.

*** besides, how may thousands upon thousands of deaths happen every year as a result from medical treatment.  ***

And how many MORE are saved? Really, you would prefer to go back to medieval mortality rates and life expectancy... go right ahead, you'll be dead before you're 40.

*** we turn to doctors and medicine far too much, that our bodies have started to become immune to antibiotics.  ***

This I kind of agree on, but it's not a case of science or medicine being 'wrong'. It's a case of people simple mindedly using antibiotics, antibactirial, anti this and anti that ALL the time and never giving our own bodies enough chance to build up our immunity. But you know what? If I have a urinary tract infection I'm damn well going to get medical attention.

It's your simplistic views of 'I've seen prayer do things' and others who blindly believe 'studies' put out by Christians that cause a lot of these problems.

Learn critical thought people, PLEASE.

God exists and he gave  us brains to use for the good of the people,including doctors.

God gave us a brain and I believe He gave Doctors the ability to medicate and treat the sick.  Luke (who wrote Luke in the Bible) was a physician.  God obviously, therefore, thinks highly of this profession to include his writings in the Bible.  I believe that God and treatment by Doctors goes hand-in-hand.