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Miss Information

Creepy guys keep hitting on me. How can I make them stop?


By Cait Robinson

Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.

Dear Miss Information,

About two years ago, I had a serious falling-out with a friend of mine (with whom I'd had a physical relationship, briefly), after which he found it appropriate to drink far too much and send me long series of text messages stating what a whore I was, how stupid and terrible I was, etc. This continued, off and on, until earlier this year, when he asked for my forgiveness and for the rekindling of our friendship. Even though I could forgive him, I did tell him that I couldn't be his friend after what had happened. After that, the drunken-insult messages resumed, until I managed to block his phone number. I thought that was the end of it, until a few days ago when he emailed me to tell me that he was working in another city, wished me the best, and asked me to keep in touch. 

I don't know what to do. After two years, I still have a hard time reconciling the fun, intelligent friend I had with the jerk who would call me awful names. Is it worth giving him another chance, or am I just asking to get the crap kicked out of my emotions again?

— Confused And Tired

Dear Confused and Tired,

A friend of mine sent me a fascinating article about narcissism. (Why he was sending it to me is a question that we should probably not examine.) The bullet points are that narcissists feed on approval from other people and always need the upper hand; if they feel rejected or lose that control, they lash out and act destructively. I'm not in the business of diagnosing anybody (you have to give me twenty dollars and step into my clinic/van for that), but I'm using this as food for thought. This guy is absolutely not stable ground in which to plant... um... friendship seeds.

Forgiveness is only deserved if things change. Just like an apology is only sincere if someone makes the effort to fix the damage they've done. You took a stand by severing ties after his abusive tirades, so he apologized to get back in your good graces. Once he had your ear again, he started the abuse right where he left off. If this is the pattern, his apology was not genuine, zero personal growth happened, and you should go back to blocking his number. His behavior sounds more like a power play than it does a desire for friendship. It is possible for people to heal and change, but it sounds like he's doing none of that.

 

Dear Miss Information,

I broke up with my boyfriend of four years about two years ago. But since then, I have not met one guy that I really wanted to have any kind of meaningful relationship with. I meet people while out all the time and they ask for my number, but they either end up being people I'm not interested in seeing/not attracted to, or complete douchebags looking for random hookups. ("Complete douchebag" may be biased.) I've had a few flings, but they've all ended badly.

I know it could just be the people I meet, but it honestly seems like all the men I meet are this way. No matter where I go to hang out, which friends I'm with, or what I'm wearing, it's always the same. Recently, I was approached by someone intending to pay me a compliment by saying, "You have the best tits in the room." A few weekends ago, a friend of a friend approached my sister and said, "Hey, who's your friend with the nice tits?" and pointed at me. Even at work — I work in a bank — I get creeped on by customers in their forties and fifties on a regular basis. What gives?

Please wise Cait, tell me what I am not understanding. Learning, I am.

— Not a Star Wars Geek

Dear Not a Star Wars Geek,

Oh, man! You won the illustrious "Best Tits in the Room" award? I'm green with envy. The last time I went out, I got the "You Look Like You Read Books" medallion. I had mixed feelings, because at least I placed, you know? I'm thinking next time I'll pick a different song for my "talent" routine. 

I don't see any real flaws in your approach. I do hear a heavy sigh in your tone. For what it's worth, these grievances are well aired by millions of attractive, smart, pulled-together people the world over. It's nothing you're doing; it's just a thing.

If you're in the market for something more real, take a more active role. You talk about being approached by these creeps, but you don't mention approaching anyone yourself. Guys who sleaze on girls at a bar are a self-selecting population, and likely skew higher on the creep scale than the dude hanging out by the jukebox, nursing a beer. Learn to identify and brush off the losers so they don't ruin your night; think of them like a bar fixture, like a table or a stool or a taxidermied elk on the wall. Then try expanding your horizons. Bars are loaded territory, but connections can happen anywhere: in line at the grocery store, on a bus, at the library. If you're disgusted by the guys who are finding you, put on your pith helmet and find your own guys. Male consensus seems to be that a girl making the first move is an automatic thumbs-up. (And making the first move plus the occasional Yoda reference? No stopping you will there be!)

I want to give you some auntly "chin up!" advice, but the truth is that these people exist everywhere. Jerks are just louder than everyone else. But that doesn't mean they're the only guys in the room.

Commentarium (40 Comments)

Sep 10 11 - 12:46am
hac

The advice on the 2nd letter is money!

Sep 10 11 - 8:47am
Joe

Seconded. Both pieces of advice were well-written and wise. You're doing good, MI. Keep it up.

Sep 10 11 - 9:44am
Kevin

"Male consensus seems to be that a girl making the first move is an automatic thumbs-up."

Uh, duh. Too many women seem to think that passivity is the key to finding someone. Ok, if the guy is immature, insecure, or old-fashioned-sexist, making a move won't work. If that's the kind of guy you want, then don't start any conversations. Otherwise, make yourself available (as most women do), but also start some conversations yourself. Whatever you're looking for in life (a mate, a job, etc), be pro-active.

Sep 12 11 - 9:35am
thinkywritey

Hang on hang on hang on. Those aren't the only options! I have ZERO problem being assertive, but I LIKE assertive/dominant men. The guy standing by the jukebox nursing a beer may or may not be a doosher, but he kinda sounds like a drag!

Sep 12 11 - 12:14pm
Kevin

How do you know he's a drag until you talk to him? The first time you see him, you don't even know if he normally nurses a beer vs. approach. And unless you both are regulars, it may be the last time you see him. Both sexes should try not to let interesting people pass on without a word.

Also, judging a guy by whether he approaches you or not is a very narrow criteria. Douchebags will walk right up and talk about your tits. Pickup-artists may come up and be smooth, but they also write about how much "approach anxiety" they have, and techniques to deal with it.

The guy who doesn't approach, ok, maybe for you, that's not an assertive enough guy. Though plenty of guys are assertive in work, with friends, in hobbies, etc., and will be assertive in relationship, but are not assertive in approaching. Only you can decide whether he might be good enough "in relationship" after the connection is started, or whether you're only interested in a guy who starts the connection.
Though the latter route still sounds passive to me. I suppose passivity could be a tool for winnowing-out guys. If he won't overcome your passivity, you believe he won't be what you want in relationship. I can understand that perspective.

Sep 10 11 - 10:07am
Seattle Blonde

@NASWG, a couple of tips that I followed when I was single after a long relationship:

One, don't hang out in bars. Seriously. Unless you're with at least one other friend and have perfected the art of looking unapproachable. Don't be smiley at people, don't try to make eye contact, and just generally don't worry about coming across as nice. I'm being serious: there's a way that men clearly think it's okay to come up and "compliment" women on their bodies (as you know!), but I have far fewer problems with this despite being petite/blond/otherwise attractive because I've honed a fairly unapproachable persona for such situations. Creating that persona essentially involves carrying yourself in more masculine ways, like sitting up straight, looking straight ahead, and so on: body language works wonders, truly. You might even be able to switch it on in the customer service context: glares are AWESOME.

(But I did intentionally avoid almost all bars for that reason, and only went to ones where I felt comfortable sitting alone. Those were where I had great fun and real conversations with other people, including men who approached me, as the customer population was different.)

Two, try dating online if you want to meet people. A few emails back and forth can do wonders to weed out the creeps, and it's a way to put yourself out there in a more comfortable way. There are a lot of douchebags, but there are a lot of wonderful good guys too. You can even do that making-of-the-first-move thing online as well (I did, and it worked), so it's just a safer way to date (IMHO).

Sep 11 11 - 8:05am
gee

No place-including the internet is a safe place to date

Sep 10 11 - 10:08am
Monkey

Gross guys are everywhere. Learn to identify them and cut them off before they get up in the business. And it's not you- it's them!

Sep 10 11 - 10:24am
TC

As one of those guys who stands by the jukebox, nursing a beer, a woman making the first move is great. In fact, us shy guys actually prefer it. And once a conversation gets going, we're just as friendly as the guys who walk up to you and compliment your tits out of the blue. And probably less rude. Sure, some of us can be douchebags too, but that's more a matter of personal chemistry than straight up aggression.

Sep 10 11 - 10:48am
jan

"...we're just as friendly as the guys who walk up to you and compliment your tits out of the blue."

This would be hilarious were it not so sad.

Sep 10 11 - 11:03am
at

Confused and Tired- I was in a relationship like this. Only instead of calling me names he would say sweet things to me, then act like it never happened. I wanted to be his friend but i hated the drunk dials. Keep his number blocked. The old friend who was fun and you liked being around is really a dick in disguise. Do you really want to be friends with someone who thinks its ok to say mean things to you? Being drunk is not an excuse.

Sep 10 11 - 1:26pm
Me

Why is this on Saturdays now?

Sep 10 11 - 8:39pm
zzz

@C&T - narcissist? maybe. more likely explanation is that he has an alcohol problem

Sep 11 11 - 12:25am
amie

Sure, blame it on the a-a-a-a-a-alcohol, but there are probably other factors at work. None of them are her problem.

Sep 11 11 - 12:01pm
Hu Jintao

normal, sane guy + alcohol = fucking psycho?
Doesn't add up. I don't know what's missing, but something's missing.

Sep 11 11 - 8:04am
fig

The "Not a star wars geek" seems to be too good for nerds, yet does not hesitate to complain about being approached by bros. Not that every guy has to be in either category.

Sep 11 11 - 12:07pm
yikes

Actually the letter writer never made mention of nerds or bros, so it seems like those categories are ones that you're putting them in yourself. The letter writer is complaining about being approached by men who find it acceptable to to openly comment on a strangers anatomy, which is clearly inappropriate. "Nerds" and "bros" may both do that...

Sep 11 11 - 8:57am
kevin

Good advice! That is a narcassistic twit! Move on, he is a self luving insecure fucked up pussy! Find a real man!

Sep 11 11 - 3:17pm
Mr. Man

Agree with Miss M's advice on both. Dude #1 is trouble and two-faced. Nothing to be gained there.

If LW#2 is getting inappopriate chest comments then she probably does have an exceptional bust which makes men turn into lusty morons. I've had gf's like this and an unfortunate consequence of being attractive is more attention from everybody. So I agree - use your social cache in your favorite to approach guys you find interesting.

Sep 11 11 - 4:46pm
cs

Which letter is that picture supposed to represent? Because that guy can creep on me in a bar anytime. Yow.

Sep 12 11 - 8:11am
grammer geek

" No stopping you will there be."

No, no, no. The sentence should properly read, "Be there, you will." The clause "no stopping you" should be dropped.

Sep 12 11 - 12:09pm
BenReininga

We had a pretty rousing discussion of this in the office -- and ultimately figured it worked better to make an over-the-top Yoda joke than to actually try to figure out the bylaws of Yodean grammar.

Then we all felt like nerds and had to get back to work.

Sep 12 11 - 6:46pm
CaitRobinson

@BenReininga My name is Caitlin and I approve this message.

Sep 13 11 - 4:36pm
@Ben and Cait

If it makes you feel any better, we spent an entire day discussing Yodean grammar in one of my linguistics classes in college. Academia at its finest / most useful. (P.S. Cait: Dooooo yooouuuu approoooooove?)

Sep 12 11 - 9:16am
PJC

So much excuse-making. The first letter has a jerk in it. Leave him be, let him go. people make new friends all the time.
As for creeps, there are male creeps and female creeps. No rules on who should approach who. Be proactive and find what you want. If you don't look, you won't find.

Sep 12 11 - 11:38am
G

I like this

Sep 12 11 - 12:38pm
S

I'd be interested in the link to the fascinating article about narcissism.

Sep 12 11 - 6:47pm
CaitRobinson

@S: It's yours! https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201106/how-spot-narcissist . Let's all take a minute to appreciate the super-deep picture of a dude in front of a shattered mirror.

Sep 12 11 - 4:16pm
@thinkywritey

(stupid Hooksexup won't let me reply to you above)

How do you know he's a drag until you talk to him? The first time you see him, you don't even know if he normally nurses a beer vs. approaches. And unless you both are regulars, it may be the last time you see him. Both sexes should try not to let interesting people pass on without a word.

Also, judging a guy by whether he approaches you or not is a very narrow criteria. Idiots will walk right up and talk about your tits. Pickup-artists may come up and be smooth, but they also write about how much "approach anxiety" they have, and techniques to deal with it. Sometimes they overcome it, sometimes not.

The guy who doesn't approach, ok, maybe for you, that's not an assertive enough guy. Though plenty of guys are assertive in work, with friends, in hobbies, etc., and will be assertive in relationship, but are not assertive in approaching. Only you can decide whether he might be good enough "in relationship" after the connection is started, or whether you're only interested in a guy who starts the connection.

Though the latter route still sounds passive to me. I suppose passivity could be a method for winnowing-out guys. If he won't overcome your passivity, you believe he won't be what you want in relationship. I can understand that perspective.

--Kevin

Sep 13 11 - 5:16pm
@Kevin

I also tend to think there's a positive correlation between a person's tendency to be dominant and their tendency to act like a douchebag, in part because I think there's a negative correlation between dominance and empathy. IOW, if you go for overtly dominant men, you're going to get a high proportion of douchebags. There are exceptions, but...

Sep 13 11 - 6:30pm
Kevin

Could be. That's sparked some thoughts in me too about a woman I know who is man-like in many ways, very assertive...and low empathy. Interesting.

Sep 14 11 - 12:30pm
thinkywritey

Shades of grey, my friends. Our options are not "passive" and "douchebag." As I said, being assertive is easy for me. Which is why -- ironically? -- I prefer not to do all the approaching. How do I know that the guy nursing a beer is a drag? I don't, of course! But the truth is? I don't have the time nor inclination to approach every! single! guy! who is lurking in the background in order to test out whether he'd be interesting or not. Granted, if there's something noticeably interesting about a person, I'm all for moving in an investigating. Being the one to make the approach does not automatically make someone a worthwhile companion, but it puts him on the road to me investigating him further.

I am not passive. My friends would laugh at the suggestion. Part of the reason I've suspended approaching men is because after years of being the assertive one, I've met a string of submissive men who too-quickly run out my patience. One could definitely say that's my "fault," that I'm the common denominator. And I'd probably agree. Which is why the conscious change in approach. I'm NOT lurking in the background, nursing a beer. I'm engaging my friends, the staff, the talent (I see a lot of art/music), and if someone sees this from across the room and says "that's the kind of energy I'd like to tap into," he's going to have to come and find out for himself. THEN I'll join in the effort.

Sep 14 11 - 12:59pm
Kevin

Well, if your approach is working for you, then good. And if some things have not worked for you in the past, it makes sense to adjust or discard those approaches.

Are you always in a group, or sometimes in orbit around them, or sometimes alone?

Heh heh..."energy I'd like to tap into" ;)

Sep 13 11 - 4:43pm
@LW2

Oh man, I'm so there with you, lady! I've had a very similar experience to yours and it has been extremely disheartening how many douchebags exist and how few really stand-up guys seem to be out there. There are many days when I wonder whether my ex was the last awesome guy I'd ever meet. I do find myself carrying around the attitude of "all the good ones are taken," but I have to remind myself that that's how I felt before I met my ex and then I met him, so I have to have faith that I'll meet someone even better or at least more capable of staying in a relationship without imploding. :) So, to repeat what Cait said, "Chin up!" We'll find the right guy at the right time, and not a moment sooner. (I hope!)

Sep 13 11 - 6:35pm
Kevin

Nah. There's a lot of decent guys out there. Maybe they don't have the looks you want, or some other criteria, but they're there. You're hanging-out in the wrong places. Or you're putting out the wrong "bait". Or you're failing to start conversations with the right prospective dates.

Sep 13 11 - 5:10pm
@NaSWG

So wait: first you say you're meeting lots of guys, but either you're not interested in them or they're douchebag types. Fine. But then in the next paragraph you make it sound like the problem is that ALL the guys you're meeting are douchebags. Which is it? It's one thing to go through a period of not finding the right guy; if some are douchebags, and some just aren't your type, that's normal in life.

But if everyone you're meeting is supposedly a douchebag, then it means you're probably doing something to contribute to the situation, because most people aren't douchebags. Either you're living somewhere that's douchebag-friendly, or there's something you're doing that's discouraging the non-douchebags. My guess? Well, I'll give you the same advice that's often given to men in this situation: maybe you seem to have a chip on your shoulder -- resentment, anger, bitterness, whatever you want to call it -- and worthwhile men are noticing it and staying away. But douchebags don't care, of course, since they just want to get laid (or whatever).

Anyway, as the old adage says, the common element in all these situations is you. Pretty much every person I've ever met who complains that the world is full of jerks, or who laments how unfair it is that they can't find Mr. or Ms. Right, is usually doing something they're not seeing that guarantees failure and drives people away. That doesn't mean you're responsible for other people's bad behavior -- walking up to a girl you don't know and complimenting her tits is gross and creepy. But if you've got any lingering issues hanging over your head, you might find that resolving them makes this problem mostly go away.

Sep 13 11 - 7:40pm
Boris

Tits or GTFO

Sep 17 11 - 11:14am
Joseph

I've noticed that a lot of times when women think they're being hit on, especially as cashiers, waitresses, that sort of service-industry thing, the guy is being harmlessly friendly. They most likely have zero sexual interest in you whatsoever, but are simply trying to make an impersonal transaction a little more friendly for the few seconds he will see you. If a guy approaches you in a meat-market singles bar, don't get pissed at flirting, that's why everyone's there, including you. Oh, and this goes for men, too. She's being harmlessly friendly, not picturing you naked.

Sep 18 11 - 1:15am
NASWG

I didn't realize that asking your banker what she was wearing when you call her in her office was just "being friendly". Or that asking someone to be your personal secretary while eye-ing them up and down and licking your lips was really just harmless. Thanks for clearing that up, Joseph.

Sep 18 11 - 9:20pm
cs

I'm always picturing him naked. Always.

Now you say something

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