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"The Real World: Facebook" or Scanner Emily vs. The Mormons

Posted by Emily Farris

 

We grew up in Independence, Missouri, which has one of the largest Mormon populations in the country—second only to the Salt Lake City/Provo area of Utah, if we are correct. We can honestly say that some of our best friends are Mormon, and even though we don't agree with their religion—at all— some of the nicest people we know are Mormon, and that makes it hard for us to "blame the Mormons" for Proposition 8 passing in California. Well, it did make it hard for us until we got into this little Facebook argument with a Mormon friend who lives in California when he updated his status to say he was "so glad that Proposition 8 passed!" and were further attacked by five of his cronies.

Here's what happens when people stop being nice, and start getting real on "The Real World: Facebook" or Scanner Emily vs. the Mormons... if you can follow it. 

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND is happy that Prop 8 passed!!!  8:15am
- 23 Comments

MORMON 1 at 8:20am November 5
So it did pass? Sweet!

EMILY FARRIS at 8:23am November 5
Let hatred and discrimination reign.

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND at 8:25am November 5
It's too bad you feel that way Emily. If you only understood the real issue here... It's unfortunate that so many people are so misguided.

EMILY FARRIS at 8:26am November 5
What's the issue? That people want to love each other?

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND at 8:29am November 5
So you're saying that because gay unions don't fit under the definition of traditional marriage they can't love each other? That's pretty pathetic.

EMILY FARRIS at 8:31am November 5 via Facebook Mobile
I'm saying that it never ceases to amaze me how so many Christians preach love and paractice hate. why is it any of your concern or business if a man marries another man?

MORMON 3 at 8:35am November 5
I never saw as much hatred as I saw in the faces of those who were screaming at me while I was holding up a sign. Or as much theivery as those who repeatedly stole my signs, 3 an hour at one point. This is about the meaning of a word, thats all. Homosexuals enjoy ALL the same rights as everyone else, Thats the law. But redifineing a word is not a right.

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND at 8:44am November 5
It's interesting you should accuse Christians of practicing hate when that is not the underlying motive at all. Christians and non Christians alike are protecting a union that is sacred and that was instituted by God for the benefit of mankind in bearing and raising children. Proposition 8 in no way denies the rights of gays to civil unions or ...  Read Morethe benefits enjoyed by heterosexual couples.

It is my concern and business when gay relationships are promoted in public schools; schools that my children will attend. Where is the equality in forcing me as a parent to stand idly by as my child is indoctrinated with, as I see it, unmoral principles? Should I be forced to home school my child because I disagree with that which is being taught in a school that my tax monies pay for?

Or how about the hate that is being practiced as you have mentioned? Those opposing proposition 8 preach tolerance and equality. Why then were so many 'Yes on 8' signs desecrated, stolen, or defaced?

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND at 8:47am November 5
Why was the property of the 'Yes on 8' supporters destroyed? Cars were keyed, buildings were 'tagged', houses were ruined. Why also was there physical harm done to 'Yes on 8' supporters by the opposition? Is that tolerance? Is that love? Is that freedom of speech? Most definitely not. It is evident on numerous levels that the tolerance and equality touted by those opposing prop 8 is clearly a facade.

MORMON 4 at 9:05am November 5
Well said Emily's Mormon Friend.

EMILY'S MORMON FRIEND at 9:20am November 5
Thank you.

MORMON 2 at 9:44am November 5
Wow, well said!!!

MORMON 3 at 11:23am November 5
you the man Emily's Mormon Friend!!

EMILY FARRIS at 4:43pm November 5
Emily's Mormon Friend, I know you're a nice guy, but you and I can't have a real conversation about this when you base your moral system on a god I don't believe exists, because I sure as hell can't believe in a god that would create people with love and feelings and urges that "he" then deems wrong or immoral—which, as I noted before, are frankly none of your concern or your business. I respect that you believe in God, but I can't respect the fact that your "morals" lead you to discriminate against men who happen to have sex with men and women who happen to have sex with women. Most of the gay people I know have more love in their little pinkies than the so-called Christians who think that their way is the only way and everyone else should have their human rights taken away! Taking away the human rights of gay people is no better than taking away the human rights of Black people or Jews.

This country was founded on the principle that all men are created equal and if you're so afraid the gays are going to infect your kids, then I'm sorry you're so thirsty that you have to chug whatever Kool-Aid your church is serving up. I bet there are Black people at school, too. Scary! Oh, and what if there are Jews? God forbid!

If you're so scared of difference, and so worried that you can't instill enough sense of self in your children that they'll be so easily "indoctrinated" by society, perhaps you should go find a compound that shares your milieu. And stay there. This is the real world. People are different. Men who to stick their penises in each other's assholes are no different from you, except they like to have sex with men instead of women. And frankly, I would much rather my kids be around intelligent, loving gay people (many of them happen to be Christians, by the way) than brain-washed, hateful, discriminating people who call themselves Christians any day.

Basically, all you're telling me is that you want your kids to grow up thinking that it's okay to discriminate against people who are different. Don't you know it's 2008?

And to Mormon 3, I don't want to waste my time arguing morals with someone who has the audacity to go to the trouble of creating and holding up signs spewing such discrimination and hatred. If you were trying to take away my human rights (that in no way affect you or your offspring), I'd probably want to steal your signs and get in your face, too.

Nothing personal, Emily's Mormon Friend. I just get incredibly passionate when it comes to discrimination. I've said my peace and you won't hear anything else from me on this one.

P.S. God didn't institute anything. Perhaps you're referring to the church? Or the people who wrote the Bible?

MORMON 2 at 5:03pm November 5
Dang, I could feel the hate coming from you as i read this. Don't forget the forefathers of this country were Christian. Not atheists. And even the founding fathers felt they were inspired from God. So you cant use Christians as a point of reference if you are then going against what they believed. As well, that is a Christian principle that men are equal. I feel as though there is equal persecution from gay and lesbians towards families. We don't want to be indoctrinated from our government and told what to believe. Had this Proposition 8 failed, that is exactly what would have happen. You and the government would be forcing your beliefs on those who believe marriage is between a man and a woman. We would have been forced to allow our children in public schools to be taught what YOU think is right. I am glad this country was founded on Christian principles. I hope you can find peace in your heart. God loves you even though you may not feel he exists.

MORMON (?) 5 at 10:25pm November 5
Erm..., John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson were known to be opposed to mixing religion and governance. Benjamin Franklin is quoted as saying, "Lighthouses are more useful than churches."

(Emily, you're not alone! I proudly voted against Prop 8. Don't worry, they haven't heard the last from opponents of Prop 8!.)

MORMON 6 at 10:29pm November 5
Marriage has been the institution that has perpetuated humanity for millenia. Sure it doesn't always work perfectly, but it has worked better than anything else.

Okay, a homosexual cannot get married. That doesn't mean they can't be together, that they can't enter civil unions, or even be "married" in a civil ceremony.

Yes, some Christians can...  Read More be hateful. That doesn't make all of us like that. Saying so is stereotyping. Your arguments seemed crude and hateful.

I often see those that tell people to be open-minded really mean they want  people to think their way. Everyone has a right to their opinion and vote.

If you want to be with someone of your own gender, that's your choice. So far most Americans choose not to call that marriage. Maybe someday that will change...

MORMON 2 at 10:44pm November 5
a few more quotes from the founding fathers...

Patrick Henry, the great orator who said on the floor of the House of Burgesses in Virginia, "Give me liberty or give me death" also said," It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
John Adams of Massachusetts, a lawyer and the second president, wrote in a letter to Jefferson on June 28, 1813. He said, "The general principles on which the Fathers achieved independence, were . . . the general principles of Christianity."

MORMON 2 at 10:45pm November 5
Thomas Jefferson...said, "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of government is because Christianity is the only religion
that changes the heart."
George Washington, the father of our nation said, "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

MORMON 3 at 10:57pm November 6
Emily, you don't have the right to redefine a word to make it mean whatever you want it to mean. YOU DON"T HAVE THAT RIGHT! I don't either. That's like me saying that an apple is an orange. They might be similar, but they are different. I don't have the 'right' to marry: My mom, sister, father,cousin, multiple people, someone with STD's, a minor, etc. Marriage is well regulated for a reason.

How dare you say your destruction of the word "marriage" will not effect my children. Only I have the RIGHT, yes my RIGHT of what to teach MY children. If someone ever tried to take that RIGHT away, they would find out very quickly that my FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS were protected by the next amendment. The people spoke, you lost, AGAIN, sorry you are sad, but stop cramming your homosexual lifestyle down my throat. You have no valid arguements, so you just label everyone as "haters". Take a look in the mirror and see where the real hatred is coming from before you accuse others of hating.

MORMON 2 at 8:50am November 7

https://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80220
Who is trying to force their views on us? Even to the point of doing so with violence!!! Very interesting. Check out the site.

[Image]


+ DIGG + DEL.ICIO.US + REDDIT
Posted Nov 13 2008, 12:51 PM
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Comments

Brian Fairbanks said:

I love that they think they AREN'T discriminating when this is the very definition of the word. Just substitute "Negroes" for "gays" and you'll see what they're truly saying...

"But Negroes can love each other... they don't need the right to marry..." History will judge these people very, very harshly.

November 13, 2008 12:42 PM

Vincent said:

If Marriage, is a human right, then to deny one that right is to say they are not human... This fight is not over.

November 13, 2008 1:17 PM

jenny said:

My rage.  My rage is so very deep.  If there is a god, those people will burn in his/her hell.  Sorry that they're your friends.

November 13, 2008 1:36 PM

countxero9000 said:

I love when people trot out the idea that the founding fathers were Christians. In fact, most of them were Deists and had no room for the church in their advanced thinking just because of this kind of craziness.

I also love the idea that marriage was created by god or in the bible. The bible added religion to something that was neither romantic or holy, it was and has always been a business contract.

Also, speaking of drinking the kool-aid, the idea that homosexuality is a lifestyle and one that would be forced upon children is so 1980's... who still thinks that? But what can you expect from people who believe the earth was created in seven days.

November 13, 2008 2:17 PM

jojolarue said:

and the idea that laws force ideas down people's throats?? or that they shouldn't? uh, no, laws SHOULD protect rights. that laws have been used to discriminate is true, but especially clear in the example of Blacks, should not be allowed to stand in a democratic civil society.

November 13, 2008 2:35 PM

beamishboy said:

Um - In the last quote from "Mormon 3", he/she says marriage is forbidden to people with STDs?  WTF???!!!  Where does Christ mention that particular rule?  Was it while he was bathing lepers, or perhaps while he was hanging around with his prostitute friends?

It's like these people only read the Old Testament and that self-serving Roman, St Paul.  The actual teachings of Christ kinda go over their heads.

As for the whole gay-marriage, redefinition of marriage debate - I say, if marriage is a religious institution, then this is about religious freedom, and the Mormons you spoke to were on the wrong side of the debate.  We should be  taking the word "marriage" out of the jurisdiction of the law altogether.  Let the law govern civil unions and certain forms of sexual activity (those that cause harm to others, like paedophilia, should obviously remain illegal), but that is all. If ANY two people want to "marry", that is between them and their church, synagogue, temple, cult leader, alien overlord, etc.  If my Church believes granting marriage to two men is in keeping with its teachings, then why is the State allowed to intervene in that?  

For that matter (my apologies to the Mormons), I don't know what the big deal is about polygamy - who cares, so long as everyone involved is a consenting adult?

November 13, 2008 2:45 PM

weirdbeard said:

The whole 'you can't redefine the word marriage to mean something i thin the bible says it means' argument really vexes me.  As the "This too shall pass" article here pointed out, "Marriage"  in CA was legally defined gender-neutrally as being between two people until '77.  This was not about preventing redefinition, but about maintaining an earlier, discriminatory redefinition.  The prop 8 proponents Emily cites are classic examples of people who cannot grasp the basic concept of separation of church and state. I think the clear response is a proposition defining marriage as any civil union except those performed under the mormon church.  After all, it wouldnt stop them from loving one another, being with one another, or caring for one another, right?

November 13, 2008 4:02 PM

afellowgirl said:

Oh. My. Science.  My stomach is churning with frustration and indignation.  Emily, your response was great.  Unfortunately the very nature of faith like theirs is that it must be unshakable.  So using logic will never work.  It's so sad to me, to see tv personalities and all kinds of people basically spewing hate with a smile, trying to rationalize it and having others just let it slide (I'm sorry, I'm thinking Elisabeth Hasselbeck here).  It's actually very frightening.  But for all the people who don't want their children to be taught about gays, are they nuts?  Do they think their children will never come across a gay person?  Or even meet another child whose parents happen to be gay?  Should we just pretend gays don't exist so our precious children can remain innocent?  Please.

November 13, 2008 4:04 PM

Anna said:

Emily, I appreciate your anger and your obvious passion for this issue (and I too would have voted against Prop 8 if I lived in California). But I am so frustrated by the many Prop 8 opponents, you included, who keep claiming that Mormons (not the only Prop 8 supporters by far, but who are getting an unfair amount of the blame) or whoever are full of hate or are bigots.  I honestly believe that most of these people were not acting out of hate -- do you really believe they were?  For good or bad, marriage up until very recently has been seen as an institution between a man and a woman -- and you are not exactly going to change minds of people who adhere to this definition by telling them how full of hate they are.

I am all for equal rights (it kills me that my gay cousin can't get married as things currently stand) but the rhetoric that you and so many others are using is not going to change minds (or votes).  I'm not saying to stop fighting for equality -- of course not -- but consider that your average Yes on 8 supporter is going to be far more likely to have their heart changed by education and seeing positive examples of same-sex relationships than by being told that they are hateful, bigoted morons.

November 13, 2008 4:32 PM

alexandria said:

every single person who reads this thread and is angered by the hatred of the yes on 8 folks-- please go to your local city hall at 10:30pst/1:30est this saturday and join the nationwide protest against the passage of prop 8 and all other anti-gay discriminatory measures.

we can win this fight.  but we have to get a whole heck of a lot more active than we've ever been.  all of us.

November 13, 2008 7:46 PM

Tracy said:

Actually, FUCKING has been the institution that has perpetuated humanity for millenia.  Marriage came along much later.

It was only 1967 that marriage between different races was legalized.  Look how fast things changed.  The same arguments were used to oppose that as are being used now. Gay marriage will happen soon, and after twenty years it will seem as natural as interracial marriages seem to us.  These people will look just as hateful and foolish to history as those that predicated the implosion of the world due to mixing of the races.  

November 14, 2008 1:47 PM

miss_gray said:

I had a very similar exchange on my friend's facebook status with her terrifyingly right wing sister. I am always, I guess naively, shocked when I experience bigotry as I am rarely exposed to it directly due to the circles I mix in. The sheer anger I feel about this slightly scares me, I was really upset when it passed but I truly believed it is just a short term setback.

November 15, 2008 12:12 PM

barbara said:

If marriage is for families...if I don't want children, or can't have children, is it wrong for me to marry?

November 15, 2008 7:23 PM

sandy said:

Hey wait a second did someone say we can't marry our mother or brother!!!! That's completely discriminating!! Please all homosexuals if you are against prop 8 than join with me to create a proposition for the rest of us that have been completely forgotten!! I'm with the guys against prop 8 and if we are able to turn prop 8 than by golly maybe we can legalize marriages between cousins and so forth!!!!

November 15, 2008 8:35 PM

lawstonfound said:

When the founding fathers needed to raise the awareness and support of colonists in their cause of independence, it was the atheist Thomas Payne who answered the call with "Common Sense"

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

November 15, 2008 10:46 PM

thinkywritey said:

I agree with Anna. Screaming at and calling your opposition names -- in ANY debate -- is pretty darn unlikely to change their minds. The best way to normalize something, seems to me, is to be... normal.

November 17, 2008 10:24 AM

About Emily Farris

Emily Farris writes about culture and food for numerous publications and websites you've probably never heard of, including her own blog eefers. Her first cookbook, "Casserole Crazy: Hot Stuff for Your Oven" was published in 2008. Emily recently escaped New York and now lives in a ridiculously large apartment in Kansas City, MO with her cat, but just one... so far.

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