Best part of the transcript so far
11/21/2006 3:46:37 PM
From yesterday
13 THE CLERK: OUR E-MAIL IS NOT WORKING.
14 THE COURT: OUR COMPUTER IS DOWN THIS
15 MORNING. WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE BANK YOU CAN'T DO ANY
16 BANKING.
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Closing statements began 13 minutes ago.. ACK...
11/20/2006 10:01:58 AM
Sorry, loyal COPAlators, we were out of the country for a bit last week and dramatically overestimated our access to the interwebs during that time. Today this riveting (for wonks, anyway) trial draws to a close. Then we will find out what happens.... in February.
We are disappointed in all the anti-ACLU blogs (Motto: Beating them with their own sickle and hammer!) have been totally ignoring us, and COPA, as they've been too busy hating us for, like, opposing the use of dogs to bite prisoners and shit.
The closest they've come lately to an antiporn post was:
Lets remember that the ACLU has fought hard against Children’s Internet Protection Act (CIPA), which requires schools and libraries to block obscene content which are pornographic or otherwise harmful to miners.
Personally, I think fettering the access of porn to miners is, like, unpatriotic. They're practically fucking firefighters.
Anyway, last week, we missed telling you about a few things, namely because we didn't understand what the hell was going on. For instance, some Brigham Young Professor testified that
COPA, for example, offers 31 flavors of sex on the internet.
(Actually, if you caught the exhibits referenced in Condomania's Adam Glickman's testimony, there are only four flavors, but the reference was nonetheless utterly mystifying anyway.)
later, he continues:
Under COPA, these people are going to fantasyland. they have their 31 different varieties of sex. And whatever benefits are titillating and sexually-oriented that they are getting out of that, those are the things that they are looking for.
(pages 60-62, November 15 transcript)
*And speaking of Mormons: they know how to get close without getting "Brokeback" close. What? Somehow we are getting the uneasy feeling that we just elected an unprecedented number of WTF-inducing democrats. Not WTF like Ashcroft singing WTF, but... uh.... actually more like Scooter Libby bestiality WTF...
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The week in sex scandals we so hearted before they helped our party wrest control of, uh, that war
11/20/2006 9:43:24 AM
*Mostly quiet on the Faggard front though there was one of those Times How It All Came To This stories advancing the pretty fucking lame idea that it wasn't the tweaked out gay extramarital sex that caused the church to dismiss him, it was, you know, all the falsehoods.
"We saw this other side of Ted that Friday morning"
*Tom Foley's dad died eliciting an appearance and some pretty heart-wrenching shit
We feel genuinely bad for the guy. Clearly we would not want our own father dying weeks after the eccentric Apostle of Christ with the Portuguese accent he called Father all those years admitted he might have given the Rentboy treatment to his prepubescent spawn, though he was too fucked-up on tranquilizers to really be sure, thus not only putting his own unshakeable religious devotion at fault for the flaming gayness that crushed our senatorial hopes (not saying molestation made us gay, just saying our hypothetical dead father might have thought so) but our total potentially felonious hard-on for earnest adolescents who look up to us as authority figures.
Anyway, Florida opened up an official criminal investigation, so Foley will probably be brought to justice before the country for whatever sleazy shit he pulled.
We're pretty sure he's suffering now.
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Bye-bye Rummy, hello KeroWack, Red Sex Edumacator gets big job in administration
11/20/2006 9:41:02 AM
Feministing
More on Keroack(job)
As a product (products?) of Catholic school we are pretty familiar with the whole "fucking too many people will make it harder to fuck just one" theory as well as the "if you fuck someone you will be irrationally bonded to that person." The problem with these theories, of course, is that they are always spouted by people who, like Tina Fey, were virgins when they met their life partners and haven't ever fucked anyone else and are only imagining that fucking someone else would fuck them up bad.
This theory does make a sort of intuitive sense, the same way feng shui and the raw food movement might make sense to some people, but we just don't think in practice it pans out. Like: we are still way more attached to our ex-boyfriend than we are to the thirteen or so dudes we have fucked since he broke up with us in February. (OMG, JK dudes! We are not that slutty.) Sure, too much meaningless sex can get in the way of meaningful sex, ask any sex worker.. on the other hand, by this guy Keroack(job)'s logic too many hugs and we're
Anyway, by this guy Keroack's theories too much hugging or baby holding depleting precious reserves of oxytocin, and your sex life goes down the tubes. Which, again, may intuitively explain why politicians and preachers are such pervs, but...
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The media labels us wonks, to which we say: We didn't think fisting was our thing either, till...
11/15/2006 10:22:41 PM
The COPAlation continued while I was out of the courtroom this week (don't worry, I'll be live in time for the closing arguments Monday) and the less COPA fearing media outlets finally took an interest, just in time for things to get pretty fucking boring.
The AP showed up in time to hear DOJ witness Philip Stark tesify that the internet is 1% porn, which was not much different from the time, a few weeks ago, when ACLU witness Matthew Zook testified that the internet is between one and 1.5% porn, except, we imagine, that Stark got a few more Gs for his efforts.
Then the local press decided to show, and rudely dismiss our First Amendment fight something of a wonk's drama is the Philadelphia Inquirer's take on this case. To which we say: this one time, at band camp... Seriously though, this guy is clearly not a Hooksexup reader. For the next few days we will be reminding you of some of this trial's not-so-wonky moments, starting, of course, with this little COPA fearing nugget from our favoritest pornography production professor and ACLU client ever, Barb...
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The Week That Was: suffrage kinda took center stage over free speech..
11/10/2006 5:12:11 PM
So this week we were distracted from the issue at hand (a little like Kfed) we didn't miss too much in the courtroom.
*The Christian Right, suddenly confused over just how (and who to solve the nation's problems, did manage to figure out a solution to Faggard's gayness: being felt up by "godly men".
*On a related note, there asserted His Presence on the very first day, stylishly, and maybe as a woman.
In COPA news:
*Heather hearts us. (I don't think I actually did end up leaving your hotel room for the next thirty six hours. Such was my hangover.)
*Dear commenter Seth F. (did you go to Brandeis on the Schuylkill, as ACLJew likes to call it? the name sounds familiar...) Anyway, EWILF Stephen Neale's report is not available online, although it was submitted into evidence, and by pointing out that those of us on the ACLU side spend hours mulling sexually explicit slang for free, I did not mean to suggest that their expert witnesses don't make money. They just don't make as much money.
*Fave moments in the court transcripts, November 9 edition.
MR. WIZNER: I WAS CHECKING TO SEE IF IT
13 WAS MORNING OR AFTERNOON. I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE
14 AFTERNOON.
15 THE COURT: TIME GOES FAST WHEN YOU ARE
16 HAVING FUN.
17 MR. WIZNER: DO YOU PREFER PROFESSOR
18 NEALE OR DR. NEALE?
19 THE WITNESS: I DON'T REALLY CARE. I
20 HEARD MANY WORSE NAMES.
21 CROSS EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. WIZNER:
23 Q. GOOD MORNING, PROFESSOR NEALE.
24 A. GOOD MORNING.
25 Q. IF I USE THE TERM COPA, WOULD YOU UNDERSTAND
69
1 THAT I'M REFERRING TO THE CHILD ON-LINE PROTECTION ACT,
2 WHICH IS THE LAW BEING CHALLENGED IN THIS CASE?
3 A. YES, I WILL.
4 Q. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO WHETHER FILTERS
5 ARE MORE OR LESS EFFECTIVE THAN COPA IN PREVENTING
6 MINORS FROM GAINING ACCESS TO SEXUALLY EXPLICIT CONTENT,
7 IS THAT CORRECT?
8 A. NO OPINION.
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Taxpayers, meet the affable Brit you pay $300 an hour to use his Giant Brain on porn.
11/8/2006 12:32:38 PM
There are a lot of similarities between the folks who testified on behalf of the DOJ and those who testified for the ACLU. Both sides have members who, in theory at least, are fuckable. Members of both sides seem to have spent a lot of time getting drunk while making up new terms for "stroke." The difference, as we will learn from some very erudite excerpts of the DOJ’s Expert Report of Stephen Roy Albert Neale, an up-and-coming analytical philosopher so legit he has his own Wikipedia entry, is that while the guys on the ACLU side (who are totally gay for Neale) do this stuff for free,
Neale gets paid $300 an hour by America. Neale's role in this trial is to illuminate the failings of content filters. His conclusion? "The informal lesson is clear: humans are so extraordinarily creative with language – all the more so when it comes to talking about such things as sexual organs, sexual activities, sexual proclivities, and certain bodily functions – that keeping a keyword list up-to-date is going to be a full-time job."
Neale proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is up to the task.
Some highlights:
p.30
For the moment, I shall use the word “ambiguity” loosely. (In 6.7, this is remedied.) Among the things that cause problems for keyword filters are such words as “hot,” “babe”, “breast”, “jugs”, “rack”, “snatch”, “box”, “beaver”, “kitten”, “tuna”, “lick”, “blow”, “finger”, “fist”, “hump”, “ream”, “pound”, “bone”, “cream”, “load”, “swallow”, “shower”, and “wet.”
uh, aren't we forgetting wood?
p.32
A degree of overblocking might be avoided by measuring not the presence of, say, “finger” itself on a page but, for example, whether at least, three of “writhe”, “moan”, “getting off” “snatch”, “dripping”, or “shaved" also occur on the page.
Now, lest you think of the obvious problem this presents, the case of the chick who writhes and moans as her dripping finger spills blood all over her newly shaved legs, Stephen Neale goes on:
One consequence of all this is that a search for a mere string is far more coarse grained than a search for a constituent, and this can lead filters overblocking. To recognize that an NP does not merge with a VP to form a sentence is to recognize that it is not the verb’s subject, and this places a massive constraint on possible meanings. A silly but illuminating example
(7) The brunette banged the finger the blonde broke.
and then:
(8) there were two assailants, one whose face was hidden by an umbrella.. the other was wet, and his face was visible. I saw the man who was wet snatch her purse.
(9) She gave the guitarist who played that great lick her box of matches.
p. 45
6.2 The Creativity of Language Users
An informal glimpse of the magnitude of the linguistic problems faced in the design of text filtering software is afforded by the following example..... Our hypothetical filter would underblock it if it did not contain the following as keywords, each of which was found on the Web used as a synonym for “masturbating” or “masturbation” (in the male manner):
Flogging the dolphin
Giving flipper a backrub
Waxing the Dolphin
Freeing Willy
Abusing the usual suspect
Making Johnny Walker red
Roughing up the suspect
Taming Goliath
Shaking Hands with the Unemployed
Filleting the trouser trout
Cleaning the snorkel
Making sewer babies
Shaking hands with Mr. Happy
Dating the palm sisters
One man Tug o’War Bobpping the bishop
Giving yourself a dishonorable discharge
Hand starting the one eyed yogurt thrower
Mugging the kojak doll
Satisfying King Solomon
Inflating the Zeppelin
Extracting a core sample
Enforcing the No Fly Zone
The Rise and Fall of Peter the Great
Taking Herman to the Circus
Freeing the Soldiers of love
Booby trapping a toilet seat
Feeding your trouser-mouse
Doing the hand jive
Shooting putty at the moon
Saying hi to big Jim and the twins
Verifying your manhood
Whipping up some baby batter
Punching the munchkin
Spanking the monkey
Slapping the salami
Using the force
Putting some miles on the monkey
By page 64 no one is reading anymore, so Neale tries his hand as an erotica author. We're thinking Dr. Neale was not only drunk, but high, and watching Three's Company, when he wrote this:
A device sensitive to just litter context could not separate the following in respect of content, for example:
(1) Achilles beat his breast, cried out to Briseis for more meat. He made no offering of the thigh bone to the gods, but lay there eating until rosy fingered dawn appeared, licking his lips with pleasure as the juices flowed down his neck.
(2) Achilles did not beat Briseis or treat her like meat, but put his lips against her neck, then began licking her breast, her thigh. He fingered her rosy meat before eating until her juices flowed and she cried out in pleasure to the gods, this god-like man offering to bone her until dawn.
And on page 40, Dr. Neale shows a powerful talent for envisioning scenarios in which well-meaning citizens get sucked into the superporn vortex. We have no idea what the point of this paragraph is, but we're thinking it involved kind bud.
Of course, it won’t be 100% reliable because of, for example, the man who doesn’t know his wife is a phone sex operator, the woman who prefers to write or draw her own pornography all day long, the blind man addicted to audio pornography, the unwitting person whose computer has been infected by software that automatically downloads sexually explicit pictures every few hours and hides them in an invisible folder, the person whose computer has been stolen, the migrant worker who has been able to obtain work only as a kitchen hand at a strip club, the person who leaves the television on right before a cable line up changed that leaves it tuned to a pornography channel, and so on.
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Out to the polls now, a one-word post
11/7/2006 4:52:08 PM
Santorum
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No octopussy. Yet....
11/7/2006 2:35:43 PM
All sorts of promises lured me to the courtoom today: that we were going to see an octopus gangbanging a single bitch (or, er, eight?), that dogs and deer and beer bongs and post-pubescent female breasts would or could all be involved. Well, go back to your voting irregularity blogs because… eh, kinda boring day. The DOJ seems to be getting all its filtering experts from the United Kingdom, presumably because it is more expensive that way, and they come with the accompanying accents/hotness. One of them even told me he’d been reading this. (So if you are reading, I have a missed connection msg from an ACLU attorney. You: wearing rumpled khakis and Tevas, a bandage on your big toe. A windsurfing accident, you said. Him: suited, skinny, totally hearts you, though not, you know, like that, not, thanks to first amendment rights, that there would be anything wrong with that. Election night brewskis on us perhaps? Because we know how expensive London can be...)
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Could Internet Porn Save Our Generation from the Sins of Pastor Ted?
11/6/2006 5:27:21 PM
Or even Mark the Ped-?
A dispatch from ACLU v. Gonzales
If there is one thing I have learned blogging from what could be the filthiest federal court case in recent history, it's that exposure -- early and often -- to smut does not a pervert make. Perhaps, in other words, repressed preacher's son Ted Haggard should have jerked off to more porn. (It's not too late for you, Marcus!)
This is not a new idea. Way back in 1968, after the Supreme Court essentially decriminalized porn on First Amendment grounds, a presidential commission was convened to investigate the societal links between exposure to explicit content and "antisocial" behavior. Two years, twenty studies and $2 million later the Commission concluded there were none to speak of; "insufficient evidence" existed that exposure to smut played a significant role in the causation of delinquent or criminal behavior. A quarter century later, incidence of forcible rape had decreased 85%, a statistic social scientists (like commission consultant and Northwestern University Anthony D'Amato are beginning to link to the increased availability of porn), with the fairly pragmatic thesis that porn viewers "get it out of their system," a sort of latter-day reverse "Victorian effect."
And yet, much of the country -- namely, the half that identifies ideologically with Ted Haggard and Tom Foley -- remains bound and determined to see porn as some sort of noxious gateway drug, stage one of a steep descent into sexual deviance and filth and darkness. I am not saying Haggard is straight, but as any crash-dieter knows, this is a setup. Ten years ago during Colorado Springs' Gay Pride Day this man mused to the New Republic that it was like "Murderer's Pride Day." Naturally, the nearby Focus on the Family,whose political action committee Haggard found with Focus founder Dr. James Dobson, tells followers to warn their sons and daughters that porn is "highly addictive, maybe worse than drugs and alcohol."
Well duh. If you think something is as detestable as murder, but it feels really good, then it is going to tempt you. If you believe in Satan, it may even torment you. Maybe you'll want the government to protect you from it, as it hopefully would a warhead.
But sit in the courtroom setting long enough with a whole bunch of porn and porn-quality explicit content, and you'll realize it's neither particularly potent, or tempting, on its own whatsoever. You have to be in the mood. If you are, it's a great harm reducer. If you aren't, watching Haggard's face twitch is a hell of a lot more fun.
I watched a DOJ lawyer drift off as a witness read aloud a passage about guiding a lover's hand toward the "moist" site of a Brazilian bikini wax. (See page 210) Hell, I only woke up during a section on vibrators and massages (same day, page 124) because someone said "lunch."
We were all there, at Philadelphia's federal courthouse, to listen to arguments for and against law called COPA, the Child Online Protection Act, which counts among its staunchest defenders that great enemy of perversion Mark Foley. If enforced, the law would restrict all sexually explicit content considered harmful to minors (by something nebulously called "community standards") to consumers who had credit cards or could verify their ages through some other privacy-invading means. COPA has never been enforced, and after the preliminary injunction preventing enforcement of it was upheld by the 3rd Circuit Court and then remanded to the Philadelphia court by the Supremes it almost certainly never will be, so for the judge and the ACLU, the case is mostly about precedent.
For me, it is mostly about the freakshow. But after ttwo weeks locked in Courtroom 1702, I have watched a 10-year-old son drift off to sleep as his father testified about the dangers of receiving fellatio from the family dog, (page 189) interviewed two teenagers (a girl and a boy) who in their combined 27 years had probably seen ten times as much porn as I had in 28 -- and yet preferred talking about books -- and heard the testimony of a too-hot-for-NEA-funding BDSM and fisting enthusiast art professor who told me she'd been "more fucked up from being sheltered" growing up Catholic and repressed in small town Pennsylvania, than any kid could from exposure to a little DP. (A brilliant observation, since it was hard to argue, no matter what your side of the case, that she wasn't fucked up.)
I was also surprised to find plaintiff Aaron Peckham, who at 18 founded UrbanDictionary.com -- a site we have to thank for the fast-tracking of perverted slang terms like " Dirty Sanchez" into the American teenage lexicon -- to be one of the more polite, bashful, innocent twentysomethings I'd met -- like a very handsome, very rich 25-year-old 40-year-old Virgin.
And, like most people in the courtroom, despite all the titillating content -- and there was plenty -- I found myself drifting off pretty often. I couldn't help but think what Ted Haggard would do. We know he'd probably stay awake just fine -- crystal meth is a hell of a drug -- but would he be excited about it? Would the full-frontal nudity and bestiality references drive him insane? Would his ears be polluted? Would the temptation be too much to bear?
If so, I bet he's pretty good in the sack, for a fifty year old.
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TRANS FUN!
11/4/2006 1:02:34 PM
Welcome to TRANS FUN, where we ask you to match the transcript excerpt with the plaintiff or plaintiffs' witness. The possibilities are sex educator Mitch Tepper, who we kinda suspect is NOT voting for fellow Connecticut Orthodox Jew Joe Lieberman Tuesday (though we have yet to ask him about it), librarian Terri Kirk, American Library Association newsletter editor Henry Reichman, PILF Aaron Peckham, Erotic Authors Association founder Marilyn Jaye Lewis, and photographer, professor and fister Barbara DeGenevieve.
Q: IF WE CAN NOW TURN TO PAGES 14 THROUGH 15 OF PLAINTIFFS' EXHIBIT 37, 14 THROUGH 15. WHAT'S ON PAGES 14 AND 15?
A: AN ARTICLE ON SPICING UP YOUR SEX LIFE.
Q: READ THE NEXT
A: FOR HER, GET A COMPLETE BRAZILIAN BIKINI WAX JUST BEFORE A FUN NIGHT OUT ON THE TOWN. WEAR A SHORT SKIRT, BUT SKIP THE UNDERWEAR. DURING DINNER, GUIDE YOUR SWEETIE'S HAND SLOWLY, VERY SLOWLY FROM KNEE TO THIGH UNTIL HIS FINGERS REACH YOUR SILKY SMOOTH BARE AND PROBABLY MOIST TRIANGLE.
Q: IT APPEARS THAT THERE ARE SEVEN DEFINITIONS OF THE WORD PEARL NECKLACE. AM I CORRECT?
A: NO
Q: WHY AM I NOT CORRECT?
A: THERE ARE MORE THAN SEVEN.
Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
A: THERE IS A SECOND PAGE. PAGE 25, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE IT SAYS THERE ARE 32 DEFINITIONS. WHEN A VISITOR COMES TO THE WEBSITE AND LOOKS UP A WORD THAT HAS MULTIPLE DEFINITIONS, SUCH AS PEARL NECKLACE, THE VISITOR ONLY SEES 10 AT A TIME SO AS NOT TO OVERWHELM THE VISITOR.
Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE A FEW FOR THE COURT, PLEASE?
A: THERE'S PROBABLY -- THE MOST EXPLICIT IS A SCENE IN THE AIRPORT IN NEW ORLEANS IN WHICH I SAY GOOD BYE TO DARRYL, WHO IS THE SUBJECT, BY PERFORMING FELLATIO.
Q: CLIFFORD THE BIG RED DOG DOES NOT HAVE ANY SEXUAL CONTENT, DOES IT?
A: NO IT DOES NOT.
A: WELL, WE HAD AN INCIDENT...A TEACHER THAT HAD BEEN THERE FOR NOT THE WHOLE YEAR BUT HAD -- SHE WAS A NEW TEACHER THAT YEAR, HAD BEEN IN PORNOGRAPHY VIDEOS WHEN SHE WAS IN HER 20S, LIKE 10 OR 12 YEARS BEFORE THAT...AND THIS WOMAN HAD MADE LOTS OF VIDEOS. SO WHEN HER NAME CAME OUT AS HER STAGE NAME, THEN THERE WERE LOTS OF PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND STUFF ON THE INTERNET ABOUT HER.
Q: CAN YOU INDICATE A SPECIFIC PASSAGE THAT UNDERLIES YOUR FEAR?
A: I GUESS EVEN THE TOP OPENING PARAGRAPH THERE: THE NEXT DAY HE SPENDS MUCH OF HIS AFTERNOON THINKING ABOUT GETTING HOME FROM WORK AND CHECKING HIS ANSWERING MACHINE. THE HOURS CRAWL BY. HE IS SO HORNY HE HAS TO GO INTO THE MEN'S ROOM AND BEAT OFF. WITHIN A HALF-HOUR HE IS HORNY AGAIN.
A: ONE EXAMPLE IS THAT OF THE FATHER WHO CAME TO THE WEBSITE ASKING ABOUT -- I GUESS HE FOUND HIS 15 YEAR OLD SON OR SO, DOING THINGS WITH A GERMAN SHEPHERD, WITH A DOG. AND HE HAD ALREADY SPOKEN WITH HIS FAMILY PHYSICIAN WHO TOLD HIM NOT TO WORRY, BASICALLY DISMISSED THE BEHAVIOR. AND SO WE ANSWERED THE QUESTION A LITTLE MORE THOROUGHLY, YOU KNOW, WARNING ABOUT GETTING BITTEN OR GETTING DIABETES OR ANOTHER -- NOT DIABETES, RABIES, EXCUSE ME..
Answers, cute head shots and complete citations to come!
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"Why are all the "sex-pert" witnesses such borderline trekkies?"
11/3/2006 11:10:54 PM
So asks ... well, Margaret Cho and this friend of mine who actually reads this blog. I am not sure if he is referring to the wheelchair-bound Orthodox Jew whose response to a question about getting head from a German shepherd was to make sure he has a rabies shot; or the Sultan of obscure sex slang; or the silver haired porn production professor and fisting fetishist, or the silver haired gangbang-bondage-sadomasochistic erotica writer from Ohio; or the butch Pussy 101 instructor known as God-Des; or Heather, who last night told me how if I ever want to shoot a porn on the cheap, all I needed was to find a Ren Faire.
The one thing that seems to unite a lot of the plaintiffs is this term I keep hearing, "sex positive," which I wasn't really familiar with, although Rufus once penned an essay lamenting that shame had become a casualty of these "sex positive times" (and how, because of this, he was forced to barge in on his girlfriend in the middle of taking a shit in order to shame her sufficiently; the piece is called The Wow of Poo). So I asked my friend Julie, who is a feminist and women's studies major and knows about this shit, and she said: "being 'sex positive' in my experience is sort of like being a band geek." Which makes sense: God-Des is a cellist and Heather told us yesterday that she was a band geek in high school though we were too drunk to remember what instrument.
Anyway, Rufus is not a band geek or a trekkie, and Hooksexup is not really "sex positive" as positively as most of us feel about sex. This even came out in testimony, when Rufus read a mission statement he'd written nine years ago:
Hooksexup intends to be more graphic, forthright and topical than erotica, he read but less block-headedly masculine than pornography... about sexual literature, art, and politics, as well as about getting off -- and we realize that these interests sometimes conflict. Erotica does not always understand this -- that once our desire reaches a certain clip, attempts at artistry become annoying obstacles in the path of the nouns and verbs (or precious pixels) that deliver the goods. We find ourselves hunting for naked details in erotica, like rushed shoppers in a crowded store..
Which probably means he didn't read Plaintiffs' Exhibit 52, taken from a piece of erotica called The World by Michael Hemmingson:
A lot of friends had seen me leave NuNus with Christine, and I figured it’d get back to Karin. Christine took me to her new place; once inside, I pulled her to me, and kissed her for a long time. “I want your ass,” I told her.
“I want you in me,” she said. “But,” she said, “will you lick my asshole a little bit before?”
I spent a good fifteen minutes rimming her butt.
She was on her stomach, her short black dress pushed up, and while I was fucking her, I had this sudden desire to taste her fucked asshole. “I’m going to eat you again,” I whispered into her ear; all she made was this small sound.
But anyway, so yeah, basically this trial has, nine years after we officially distanced ourselves, given Hooksexup a chance to drink with the band geeks and Trekkies, members of the online community who are at once the most sexually-explicit and most articulate about their reasons for being explicit, and we've pretty much decided that we all drink, blog and fuck the same (without the fisting) as the Ren Faire types. And all our speech deserves protection.
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A shout out to Reason
11/3/2006 4:07:26 PM
The libertarian magazine Reason lays out this case (and even gives our blog a plug) in a piece today with an element of ennui we can sure relate to, noting that the ACLU has had to build a case against a law so monumentally ineffectual, so pathetically dated, and so obviously unconstitutional that it must be hard to know where to start arguing (or where, indeed, to stop.)
Quite frankly, we're a little weary of pointing out how stupid COPA is and more curious as to why, in the face of all the evidence that what might strike us viscerally as a somewhat societally super-optimal porn supply out there on the internets is actually GOOD FOR US, people still continue to want to worry about the idea that their kids might emulate the things they see when they search their puppies' names on Google (or was she searching PornEskimo?, when in the rich seventh grade tradition of Lick it till your tongue turns doo-doo brown and such Urbandictionary classics as the hot lunch I'd be willing to bet the majority of kids these days watch interporn because it is funny.
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Faggard and the PILF: a case study in the harmful effects of thinking sex is harmful
11/3/2006 3:03:04 PM
IMAGE BY DF MALKEMES
Ok, so.. we woke up to a gigantic hangover and news of Evangelical Pastor and top 25 Most Likely To Be Saved list member Ted Haggard was a tweaked out closet case who had been doing it for three years with a Denver gigolo and fantasizing about a sort of reverse lemonparty: 'A fantasy of mine is to have an orgy with about six young college guys ranging from 18 to 22 in age.' Haggard was, to his credit, not the most fire-breathing homophobe hypocrite, as explored earlier in this very webzine, but his whole massage defense is so preposterous we don't know where to start. Naturally, Haggard was not a friend of explicit content producers.
Meanwhile, PILF Aaron Peckham, with whom we drank excessively (but whom we did not, for the record your honor, fuck, despite the endurance of much mockery slash encouragement from various other plaintiffs, attorneys and sundry hangers-on) last night. Aaron radiates a youthful, almost Mormon, innocence. He might be the most straitlaced 25-year old we know. And he is balls-deep in filthy, perverted, and borderline prurient if not straight-prurient content every single fucking night before he goes to sleep.
Judge Reed, we rest our case. The more explicit prurient stuff we see, the less we probably need protection from it.
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Remainders and Observations, the before-we-head-to-dinner edition
11/2/2006 7:41:28 PM
*All these plaintiffs who are into, like, dyke culture and sadomasochism and fisting and whatnot seem to have really, REALLY normal-dude type common-law partner-whatevers. Professor Barbara DeGenevieve, whose work will at the very least never allow you to see bushes the same way, brought a boyfriend who was mostly interested in trying different beers; Heather brought a guy who was possibly even more normal, and Marilyn Jaye Lewis, who writes the sort of sadomasochistic-gangbang-domination erotica every mother wants to read left her normal-looking plumber boyfriend at home near Columbus, Ohio (though she brought her possibly more-normal mom, Marcia.) Anyway, just an observation.
*Twice this trial we have eaten at Jones, a wonderfully stupid comfort food restaurant where we were mocked for ordering a lunch consisting of deviled eggs and spinach:
and where, the last time we ate, we were laughing heartily when a manager came over and asked, "Do you guys work for National?" And only I knew why this was funny. NATIONAL is the corporation name of the PHONE SEX CALL CENTER I used to work at DIRECTLY UPSTAIRS FROM JONES. To be fair, National also shoots and provides streaming video for a number of adult entertainment websites. Now, if a manager of a Stephen Starr restaurant in liberal Philadelphia can confuse the pack of us, in our Federal Judiciary best, for pornographers, who's to say the whole community wouldn't??
*My T-mobile Wi-fi DayPass connection is about to expire. I'm signing out. More soon.
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An unnecessarily Tori Amos-esque shot of our favorite plaintiff slash drinking partner
11/2/2006 6:12:36 PM
Heather Corinna is the product of a wild party at which one Irish Cathold central Pennsylvanian fresh out of high school drank alcohol, dropped acid, and had sex for the first time - with a charismatic Chicago draft resister who was about to be a father. Heather runs approximately 695 separate websites, including this blog, where she confesses to being the mystery plaintiff who used to masturbate to Jane Eyre... or Mr. Rochester? She is also the Plaintiff Most Likely To Drink Moe Under the Table Tonight. We wish Scarleteen, on which she and volunteers dispense sex and relationship advice to teenagers, had been around when we needed sex advice (and maybe someone older and wiser to warn us that the whole virginity loss thing wasn't all that huge an exciting thing and maybe it was okay that we were too drunk to actually remember it. Today, lurking on the boards at certain kind of fascinating topics makes us feel a bit creepy, but it's undeniably a useful, helpful resource for minors that Heather would actually obviously love to go to jail to keep on the interweb. We had a drink with Heather (actually, she drank two and Hooksexup just smoked) and her "partner" ("I didn't realize that was a gay term!") Mark after her testimony, and will hang out more with her in posts to come, but we just wanted to offer you the chance to meet her and vote on her book jacket photo before we go out and get trashed with her. See you in a few!
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Barbara didn't think fisting was her thing either, until she gave it a try..
11/2/2006 4:13:35 PM
Barbara DeGenevieve is an Art Institute of Chicago photography professor who makes Peaches look like fucking Donna Reed (and God-Des look like Ellen DeGeneres). In court yesterday we got to see a movie she made in which a balding middle-aged man awkwardly describes getting jerked off by a 12-year-old girl in a park, and then she, the 12-year-old grown up into a hot Catherine Keener type (Barb herself) describes her recollection of giving the hand job, and, you know, liking it. Then we got to see another of Barb's movies, the Panhandler Project, in which Barbara photographs five black panhandlers in the nay nay on hotel room beds. Anyway, this stuff registers a two at best on the DeGenevieve Offensiveness Richter Scale. Naturally she used to have an NEA grant, and naturally it was rescinded sometime during the Piss Christ era (1994) but the association of her work with pornography gave Barbara an idea: why not just become a pornographer? In 2001 she started the pay porn site Ssspread.com and for a while even taught a porn production class at the Art Institute of Chicago until it became a bit too controversial for the school to keep on the roster.
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You told me you thought you'd been more fucked-up by your parents' sheltering of you than you thought kids could be by anything they'd see on the internet, and I know that the precocious 12-year-old slut depicted in Steven X and Barbara C is who you'd wish you'd been when you were twelve. How did you get so fascinated by sex?
Let's see, well I got married and moved to Connecticut. I had just graduated from college and he was going to Yale, and I got a job in Bridgeport Connecticut and did the commute. And that was probably the most uninteresting sex I've ever had in my life. When I got out of marriage and got back to grad school I'd known him all through high school. We weren't dating through high school, he actually dated my best friend -- that was sort of his problem, he always wanted to fuck the best friend, and he had a seven year itch which was sort of a cyclical thing for him so he started a relationship with my best friend and I went to graduate school. And my work became much more specifically about sex. As a feminist I really was interested in representation of males, and penises. You never see penises on television. It just seemed to me that it was really a necessary thing, sort of a political statement to start photographing men. At the time the women who were doing it were really sort of ostracized. This one woman in particular, Jacqueline Livingston (read her story here was photographing her son nude, from the age of eight to about the age of twelve, and she was a professor at Cornell and they eventually didn't give her tenure, and she lost her job and she was pretty much ruined. But they were talking about her work as if it was abusive to the child --they almost had her child taken away. It wasn't just images of her son she was taking, but images of her husband and images of other men, but again: they were all nudes.
And I was really interested in the work she was doing with her son. I don't think i'd ever seen anything before or since with that sort of openness. Not only was she photographing him nude, but she was doing this sort of grid of images of him masturbating. I think it was a grid of sixteen or 25 images that read like text and you read across he started in a flaccid sort of way and...
Like animation! Like a flipbook. They could make it a flipbook and sell it at Urban Outfitters!
Yeah but everyone would get arrested who bought it, and Urban Outfitters would go to jail for selling it..
Can I see her work on the internet?
I don't think so. I used to have a poster because we started communicating and she did a whole bunch of posters. I could send it to you but you could get in trouble for posting it. I think at that time, in terms of children, I think child sexuality is thought of as being nonexistent, and anytime they are sexual it's an adult's fault. But he started masturbating as a very small child and, not that she encouraged it, but she didn't tell him to stop. So it was really a wonderful relationship they had between each other, and...
Oh man, I could never do that. I mean, if I did something like that I would have to have a level of detachment that I wouldn't want to have with a family member.
I would say she was just an old hippie. There was a lot of really interesting work about sexuality in the seventies. There was also a lot of uninteresting work, of course. Because the idea of sexuality, if you were an attractive woman and you were making images that were beautiful of the female body it was considered within feminism to be bad because then you were being objectified by a man. If you made yourself look like a victim, on the other hand, it was good. I always made myself look so bad in pictures. There was just a shitload of victim work being made in the seventies, and that was really damaging to me.
You said the slutty 12-year-old who gives the 40-year-old man a hand job in the park that you portray in Steven X is what you wished you'd been like as a 12-year-old, but instead you were Catholic and repressed and living in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. I totally understand, having been possibly the dorkiest 12-year-old girl America has ever produced, but this isn't about me. Tell me more about what you were like when you were twelve.
Well I was very innocent, innocent in that I don't think I ever saw a penis until I was sixteen, and then it was only because my dad was passed out drunk on the couch and his fly was unzipped and it was sort of right there..
Gross!
And I don't think I saw another one until I found one in a book.
So were your parents pretty devout Catholics? What did they think of your work?
My father only went to church once in awhile and he died in 1979, but my mother grew more devout as the years went on, and I think, the way she was brought up, her only reaction could be, why do you do these things? Can't you do something else?
I ... could see my mom reacting that way.
I would deliberately try to embarrass her, because, you know, it was so much fun. It's really crazy and when my father died and there was a funeral my mother was standing next to me and the priest came up to me and asked me what I did, and I said I take pictures of naked men. And that almost killed my mother to hear me say that to the priest at my father's funeral.
Has your mom started to get it at all?
She committed suicide in 1985. After my father died in '79 when I was in grad school, she always felt really guilty about it. It was his fourth heart attack, and he made her life totally miserable, because she didn't drink at all, and all she wanted was for him not to drink, because when he drank he was just miserable -- he was actually a very nice person when he was sober -- but when he drank he was just verbally abusive and mean and nasty and so when she realized he had had this heart attack, she went into another room and thanked God it was finally over. And after awhile the Catholic guilt set in, and she realized she should have dialed 911 to make sure it was really really over. Anyway, in the meantime she met this really, really nice guy, who I would have done anything to have as a father, and he just wanted to move away from the area, because there were all these bad memories there... but my mother didn't know what it was to be happy, and she kind of couldn't come to terms with the fact that this guy was making her happy and that she still felt attached to and responsible for my father. In any, case she died. I think that created a shift in my life. For seven years I made work about my mother's death, and it was the most unsexual work i've made. They were pretty angry, for the most part, angry toward men, angry toward the church, angry toward any authority that had anything to do with my mother.
How did you move out of that phase?
I moved to the Bay Area in '89, and immediately I went to Good Vibrations because I'd heard about it for so long. And I got involved with one of my students, and I kind of got involved with the SM community and started playing around with that. and I think that once your consciousness turns in that direction that's where it stays. I met a bunch of doms, and one thing led to another, and the NEA thing happened. So after that, I figured that what the hell, as long as people are gonna call it porn I might as well make porn. And so in January 2001 we opened Ssspread.com a sort of queer website aimed at butches, femmes, transgendered individuals, anyone who would call themselves part of the dyke community. We produced a video in 2002 and I'm in negotiations to release the second sometime before Christmas.
For that special some-dom in your life
So I sort of have one foot in a sort of commercial pornography world. It was a pay site, and these videos will be sold commercially.
What happens in the video?
Well there are four different scenarios: it starts in the bathroom. And there's a family with a butch daddy and two kids played by a femme and a boi -- both women in their twenties, so they were all of age -- but it was geared at the sort of broad genderqueer community.
Um, treat me like I am the straightest, whitest most prudish person you have ever met: what is the broad genderqueer community?
Well it gets really pretty complicated in terms of gender identification. There are a lot of women who kind of identify as masculine and adopt a masculine identity you know. But butches femmes, people who would identify themselves more as dykes, those are the audience. I'm less interested in catering to a lesbian sensibility, which I think is more conservative. So there's a butch daddy she is taller than everyone else and is dressed as the daddy. Then there's one sort of ambiguous boy -- who's, you know, a B-O-I boi, but they're role playing.
Anyway the sex gets pretty hot. I would say I'm gonna shoot my desires, but my desires are sort of limited to my own fetishes. So I just sort of let everybody do what they do. So for that reason there was a pretty broad spectrum... there was strap-on stuff, and fingers in different holes, and blowing and sucking and licking. And it was really... pretty .. hot. Then another scene had a dom, but she was in a submissive role, and her partner still
identifies as a woman but she's the butchest, really scariest looking person I know .. And that was really pretty rough sex, and there was a lot of fisting in it, which we had to cut around.
I saw you did an essay on fisting (actually, it's called No Fisting, No Squirting, No Coffins) on your website.
Well, so as long as you've got a finger out of the vagina you're okay, but if everything's in, it's illegal.
Fisting is a crime?
It's illegal if they catch you doing it. And so for as many fisting scenes as I shot, I had to cut around it or put something in the way so that the audience who was kind of savvy to what was going on would know it was a fisting scene. It's like these little things that are so stupid.
That's so odd. To hell with free speech, legalize fisting! Seriously though, it reminds me of how when I was doing phone sex, we weren't allowed, by some FCC regulation I've never been able to find, to talk about having sex with a minor. So if a caller wanted to fantasize, say, about sleeping with his daughter's boyfriend, who was 16, I would have to say, but he's lying, right? He's really 18 and he's just saying he's 16. It was the same with incest... oh, you mean your stepmother. Though that said, no my thing, the fisting....
It wasn't my thing either until I tried it.
So you didn't get questioned about Ssspread.com. Do your students know about it?
Ssspread is down. I couldn't teach full-time and do that full-time as well. I did it for three years, and it was crazy.
My students didn't really tend to know about it unless they were part of that community. But I taught a pornography production class that I got in really big trouble for. One of the people in the class knew somebody at the Chicago Reader, and they came and did a story on us, and it was a very good story but the either the school or the museum was in the middle of a $50 million capital campaign, and everybody just freaked out when they saw it.
So the administration approved a porn production class, and then got all riled up because it got publicity? What the fuck did they expect?
Well, the class was called Body Language, so it was a very euphemistic title, and I didn't develop the class, it was developed in the video department. But I got asked to teach it, and I said of course, and it was a really successful class. The students were great. I took them to a national conference and there were about six or seven students who each did really short presentations and they were brilliant. When i was their age I could never have not only done what they did, but have been able to have been that articulate about the work they were doing. I've been in trouble at the school a number of times, and all I can say is that I have great respect for my students and what I'm interested in is providing for my students as opposed to worrying about how things come across. Everybody at the Art Institute sends their students to me if they're interested in having anything to do with sex. I just got two emails today, while I was testifying, from other professors asking for my help. I'm the sex doctor that way, sort of.
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Why more porn equals less rape; Dr. Tony speaks
11/1/2006 8:50:01 PM
Perhaps you saw Slate's coverage of the Porn-Rape inverse correlation, news we are proud to have broken in the mainstream blogosphere, but the original study comes from Anthony D'Amato, a Northwestern University law professor and polymath.
How would you describe your areas of interest? The papers on your site seem remarkably varied.
I go through academic life addressing challenging problems. I have little interest in restating what other people have said. I am passionately curious about the world we live in--where it comes from, what it's made out of, what we are supposed to do about it. Why am I HERE? What is the law trying to force me to do with my life?
What interested you in pornography to begin with?
Adolescent titillation, I suppose. Real live teenage girls were far more exciting. And it wasn't the difference between being dressed and being nude. I thought, and I still think by the way, that clothes increase a woman's sensuality. Think about it: if women's clothes didn't do that, would they have been invented? Playboy's problem, as I see it, is excessive nudity. This reminds me of S.J. Perelman's wonderful line, said by a salesperson of women's clothing, "On you it looks good!" This is exactly what women's magazines try to pitch, because after all, they are advertisements for the designers. Naturally, the right observation would be: "You look good in it."
Do you have kids? If so, do you/did you monitor their media consumption habits?
I have two boys. I have no idea whatsoever what they do when they are alone, and I wouldn't dream of invading their privacy.
Any thoughts on violence and video games?
As Robert Ardery argued in The Territorial Imperative, human males are obsessed with territory, and will commit acts of violence to get and preserve territory. We can still see this working out precisely in today's video games. However, for me, this is an atavistic propensity that civilization is designed to overcome, and my vote is with civilization. I suspect that we might find roughly the same negative correlation I found between porn and rape if we look at video games for a correlation between playing them and committing acts of social violence.
Do you think exposure to sexually explicit material is harmful to children? If so, how do you think the government can best protect children in an age of limitless access to such material?
Of course not. Children prior to puberty find it boring. (I still do; I fast-forward through most of the ponderous sex scenes inserted in today's films that are there only to get them an R-rating.) After puberty, well, read Ruth Benedict or Margaret Mead; those young south-sea islanders seemed mentally and physically healthy enough. The government isn't about protecting anyone; it's about raising money for the next election.
What was the first ponographic or sexually explicit material you were ever exposed to? Is the image indelibly seared on your brain?
So non-indelibly that I can't even remember.
Did you have to endure a lot of pornography in your capacity with the Nixon Commission? If so, did it get pretty dull after awhile? (it sure has in the context of these proceedings!) Also, how has porn changed since then, do you think? How has society's response to sex changed?
I worked on the correlation stuff, the experiments with college students, etc. I left it to the others to absorb the actual material. The little of it I saw reminds me of Woody Allen's trenchant criticism of porno films: "Why are they all so badly lit?" Of course, that was in the early days. Since then apparently the films have gotten brighter and the plots lighter.
And a bonus Tony asked and answered all by himself:
Do you ever dream about porn?
This is my question, not yours, but I'll answer it anyway. Yes, I have a recurring dream. I am standing in front of a class of 80 law school students, each with their laptops in front of their faces. I am trying hard to connect with them. I say something brilliant and, yes, they react to it. I see them looking at each other's screens, comparing notes, and then typing on their keyboards. I am gratified to think that they are trying to make sure that they have my exact words in their computer notes. Then there is an abrupt transition. I am standing in the back of the classroom, looking at the students from behind. I have no idea how I got there. All I know is that I look out over their desks and see all their computer screens. On every one of them is a porn movie or a pornographic photo. The students are deeply engrossed in their work and do not realize that I am staring at them from behind.
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Taking the Witness stand today
11/1/2006 9:19:49 AM
Meet installation artist Barbara DeGenevieve readers. Not sure if this can be described as NSFW, or just disturbing. More to come.
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Meet Rasterbator We'd Like To Fuck: Aaron Peckham
11/1/2006 12:03:21 AM
If there was a PILF (Plaintiff I'd....don't look it up, thought A-ZILF are all defined on UrbanDictionary.com) award, we would want to give it to Aaron Peckham, but it is hard not to feel creepy talking to Aaron Peckham about anything involving, you know, adult content that is not couched in words like "angry pirate" or "rusty trombone"; just ask Ben, who had to question him in court about Cleveland Steamers, teabagging and various other embarrassing sexual practices defined on the site ("teabagging" is the only one we just mentioned that isn't in today's Top 20 most searched) he founded as a freshman at California Polytechnic, Urbandictionary.com. Aaron projects a certain unadulterated radiance that makes him seem like one of those super-attractive but virginal evangelical Christian true believer types, possibly because in addition to running a website with 330,000 users a day, he's the Silicon Valley version of a Chosen One: his day job is as a software programmer Google. Aaron is single and straight and lives in the Bay Area (obviously he wasn't going to tell us exactly where).
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What's the goal of Urbandictionary.com?
It started out as a parody of a dictionary. And basically there are two kinds of dictionaries, prescriptivist dictionaries and descriptivist dictionaries, and prescriptivist dictionaries tell you like, this is the correct way to speak, and a descriptivist dictionary tells you this is how people speak in real life and we're going to try to reflect things as they are. So I thought Urbandictionary would the ultimate de-scriptivist dictionary because it would be written by its users.
Now, the way it's compiled and edited, how is it different from Wikipedia?
That came up in court, too. Wikipedia is also community driven, and it's also under the control of its users a lot more than any, like, owner or whatever, but Wikipedia's got a bunch of goals that I don't really share. Like, Wikipedia tries to be objective and factual and link to all its sources, and when it does that it's like a really great reference. But Urbandictionary is all about keeping intact the way the users talk. You can't even edit the spelling or the grammar or anything, all you can do is vote whether a definition is good or not, and the definition with the most positive votes goes closer to the top.
Ah, so basically you made the case that you couldn't edit UrbanDictionary because the site is really an important historical document to the way people really speak. And I thought this was just about the right of American citizens to find out the meaning of Cleveland Steamer in the comfort of their homes
Yeah, well, I started it was new at college, and I was hearing a bunch of new slang terms, because I was surrounded by people from all over California..
And they all have their own slang.
Yeah. And I just started making a bunch of parody websites. i made a google parody, and a Match.com parody, and Urbandictionary was parody of the Dictionary.com site, like it had the same banner and everything.
So what were the first words defined by you and your friends?
There's a definition for The Man that I think is the oldest. And Fo' shizzle my nizzle was definitely one of the first. For the first two years it wasn't that big, it didn't have that much of a following, and then all of a sudden it just started taking off around 2001. It showed up in a court case in the UK, which actually showed up in court today. Then I started working harder on it and I actually wrote my thesis was about UrbanDictionary.
So tell me about your day job
I actually work at Google, as a software engineer. They treat everybody really well. I got really lucky. I went to a lot of interviews, and I guess I could talk about Urban Dictionary for hours.
Do people try to get all cool and speak exclusively in slang to you?
Today during my cross-examination they asked if I was a rasterbator, and I assumed their usage meant someone who spends too much time on the internet. So I said yes.
EXTRA: UD'S mos searched-terms
I'm proud to know what all of them mean, he tells us. Uh, we're proud of you too...
1 emo (not explicit! but the most commonly looked up and defined word,
with 1270 definitions)
2 dirty sanchez
3 milf (the opposite is "dilf," for dog I'd like to fuck, guess that
didn't make it into the top 20. (A through Z) + "ilf" are all defined)
4 sex ("A painful activity in which a man, using the stiffest and
pointiest part of his pelvic region, repeatedly stabs a female in her
crotch until he feels satisfied." Harmful or helpful to minors?)
5 donkey punch
6 cleveland steamer
7 pussy
8 cunt
9 rusty trombone
10 fuck
11 angry dragon
12 blumpkin
13 noob (not explicit!)
14 angry pirate
15 hot carl
16 vagina
17 cum
18 strawberry shortcake
19 abe lincoln
20 pink sock
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What the moms of writers of lesbian sadomasochism gangbang novellas think of COPA
11/1/2006 12:03:16 AM
Erotica author and Erotica Authors Association founder Marilyn Jaye Lewis, for whom the ACLU and Hooksexup can thank for Exhibit 52, excerpted here:
Her lips slowly and reverently sheathe Mark's silky force...She has never experienced anything like this, her mouth and her pussy both so full of cock that she almost feels sick from the intensity fulfillment. Like a little girl gorfing on candy, she doesn't care at all that she will be punished for this later, because all that matters is the unbelievable sweetness of having one dick driving into her pussy and another one fucking her mouth.
and
Lisa drove her crotch against Casey's gash harder and harder. Her attention was riveted now on her companion's excitement. She wanted Casey to come. She wanted the blonde angel to cream on her cunt.
Marilyn arrived to the courtroom with her mom, Marcia Barck, and which made us think, how do the feelings about COPA differ from generation to generation? As I told them at lunch, one thing I keep mulling in writing this blog is how challenging it would be to raise kids today. On the other hand, sometimes I think, what really is the difference if a kid finds out about, I dunno, teabagging, at ten as opposed to thirteen? If Z had been 15 and not 13 would people have been nearly as aghast at her porn habits? "Wait till you're a mother," Marcia told me. So I decided to interview both of them.
Marilyn: I think the one key issue... is that we don't think it's the government's responsibility to legislate this.
Marcia: Exactly. And I think that's what while I certainly wasn't raised the same way Marilyn was reared, which was different from the way you were reared, I'm sure because we're all different generations, I believe that when it comes to these things like pornography or erotica.. it's not any of the government's business. If the parents are not willing or able to oversee their children's contact or attitudes or behaviors or what they're doing on the internet, that's their business. How dare the government tell me how to raise my children?
Marilyn: Though we were talking about that this morning after one of the morning news shows [on which] some professor has been researching what kids do on instant messaging programs, who they're meeting and that sort of thing, and that's a much more personal danger than pop-up ads. And there are real dangers that parents can't stay on top of, and I don't think that's anything to sneer at. When i was growing up there were two shows we weren't allowed to watch, but there were three channels! Nowadays, you've got 200 channels, how can you know what's appropriate?
Marcia: What weren't you allowed to watch?
Marilyn: We weren't allowed to watch Mighty Mouse because Mighty Mouse was too violent, but then.. we weren't allowed to stay up late either.
Marcia: Violence is so much more objectionable than sex. Where is the government's concern about violence?
What was your sexual education like?
Marcia: Mine was zero.
Marilyn: Mine was all over the place. They started in the fifth grade, and they would progress every year you learned more and more and more. It was very, very open and one of our teachers was the head of the VD hotline, and so one of our field trips was to the VD hotline.. it was a whole different attitude toward sexual education then, and this was in Ohio.
Marcia: But you didn't get that at home, did you?
Marilyn: Yes i did get it at home. When I was eight you gave me a book about, "The Wonderful Story of How You were Born," and how babies were made...
Marcia: I don't remember that.
Marilyn: Then we always had sex books in the house, Everything you always wanted to know about Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask), the Total Woman, The Joy of Sex, The Happy Hooker; those books were in our house because they were popular then.
Marcia: What I meant was that I don't think your father or I sat you or your brother down and talked about sex.
Well, how did you learn about sex?
Marcia: By doing! you learn by doing.. (Laughs.) We were never told we would get our period; I think I must have picked up information some how from her. The most daring thing we could do was to flirt with the lifeguard at the swimming pool and my lord, if they ever flirted back, I don't know what we would have done. I knew nothing I remember when Gwen got pregnant, the housekeeper Gwen, who was with my family for fifty years or so. When I was eight or nine, this woman got pregnant and, well, she never had been married and as far as I knew no unmarried woman had a sex life. So the only way she could have gotten pregnant, to my mind, was through my father, as he was the only man in the house. And I thought, isn't that curious? Many years later, I realized it was a man who was not my father, who lived next door to us named George when we lived in the inner city and he was in the other half of the double, and who apparently she continued seeing. I didn't know that until one day, it must have been twenty years later, when my mother said something about having run into George, and I said, oh did you tell Gwen, she was always friendly with George? And she said No! And I said, well, you should tell her. And she finally had to tell me that George was the father of the child. It was pretty scandalous. They sent her away to the Florence Crittendon Home, which probably doesn't exist anymore (Oh, but it does) but it was place for unwed mothers to go after they started showing, and you stayed there until your baby was born, and then they would put it up for adoption.
What was the raunchiest literature you ever read?
Marcia: There was this book called Forever Amber by Kathleen Winsor that probably came out in the early- to mid-forties, and it was scandalous because there were a few mildly sexual passages, and I mean VERY mild ones, and my sister and I bought that book to give to my mother for a birthday present, so that we could read it, because we knew there was no way we were gonna get our hands on it. And my mother was -- well I'm sure she read it. And that was the first sex novel I ever read.
Marilyn: We still have it somewhere, it stuck around. Also back in the thirties you had Tobacco Road and God's Little Acre by Erksine Caldwell (the latter of which actually got the author arrested on obscenity charges, as the members 2 Live Crew would be fifty eight years later), were published, but by the forties it had cleaned up. None of this stuff was legal back then though, so it all got published in France, where the Olympia Press and Essex House and a couple others just churned out these novels all of the time.They only became legal in america in the early sixties, though, after Barney Rosset, who had a trust fund and was ready to fight, took them all to court and basically changed everything in publishing in America. Anyway by the eighties erotica had really emerged as a genre, and the original On Our Backs started, and suddenly there was a market for publishing these things, and I started writing it and got published almost immediately.
Yesterday in court a library censorship expert named testified (a PDF of the trial is downloadable here; see page 14) that in his 26 years editing the American Library Association's bimonthly newsletter on censorship, he had documented, at a minimum, 1,500 incidents of books being banned or complained about in library systems for reasons of sexual content.
Marcia: And you don't want to see it go back to that, where that's generally accepted. There was something in Ohio recently, where some of the parents were demanding that some books be banned from their children's little library...
Marilyn: I think what's important is that the rest of society acts like you're weird and nuts, or if the rest of society actually gets behind you and wants to ban them with you.
So, do you read erotica?
Marcia: I read everything she writes. The first thing she sent to me was ... Neptune and Surf?
Marilyn: Yeah the first thing I sent her was a book of three novellas I published.The first, Neptune and Surf, takes place on Coney Island in 1955, and it's an interracial erotic novella between a black sailor and a Chinese Puerto Rican prostitute on Coney Island in 1955. The second was a sort of lesbian sadomasochism novella, and the third, Gianni's Girl, takes place in 1920 and it's about a gangbanging...
Marcia: What every mother wants to read.
What did you think?
Marcia: Well I thought her writing was wonderful. I really can't remember what my thought process was at the time but I'm sure i thought, where did she learn this? Where did all of this come from.. it wasn't shocking or appalling or surprising.
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