Miss Information
I've had so many flings, I want to swear off of dating and sex entirely. Am I going too far?
By Cait Robinson
Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.
Dear Miss Info,
I am dating a girl who's never had a boyfriend or even been kissed, and I am not entirely sure how to go about it. We've been friends for years now, and our mutual affection has recently come to light. We decided to give dating a shot.
We went out to a movie and all seemed to be going okay. I put my arm around her in the theater; her reaction was mixed. Some moments she seemed to enjoy it, and other moments she seemed uncomfortable. The rest of the date, I didn't try to make contact like holding hands, because I thought it would make her uncomfortable. But she still talked to me as though she were having a nice time.
I really like her and I understand that I need to have patience with this, but how do I go about trying to help her with this without making it harder than it needs to be?
— Touchy Situation
Dear Touchy Situation,
Touch can be welcome or unwelcome, and being respectful of that is vital for anyone. I give you a high five for being sensitive to that, and for trying to meet your girlfriend where she is. Well done.
A frustrating part of heterosexual relationships is the pressure on the man to pursue and on the woman to be pursued. It sells everybody short, men and women alike. Your girlfriend is probably nervous about the prospect of sex and, by extension, anything that could lead up to it. If you think she's a little gun-shy about this whole thing, then let her take on the more aggressive role. It will allow her to build confidence in herself as well as trust in you.
Start with warm, non-threatening, and nonsexual touches, which will probably put her more at ease. If you're talking and it feels like you're clicking, maybe brush the hair out of her face fondly. Or rub her upper back with your open palm while you're walking side-by-side. Rather than grabbing her hand — which might feel possessive — hold your own hand out and let her take it: this puts the agency on her. Offering your arm while you're walking together is also a nice, trust-building gesture. When you want to kiss her, don't sweep her off her feet in some grand, invasive gesture — let her take control. Gaze into her eyes; push back her hair. Or lean in and hold your face close to hers, but let her move in the last inch. This allows her to take the next step, also building sexual confidence in her.
In general, remember that flirtation is an acquired skill. Your girlfriend may not yet have that vocabulary, so don't assume that these gestures mean the same thing to her that they do to you. When you put your arm around her and she shrinks away, it's likely not a sign of "ugh, this guy;" it's probably closer to, "I don't know what to do at this particular moment." It takes a lot of strength to be in your position. Just remember that even though she may not show it in familiar ways, she's choosing to be with you.
Dear Miss Information,
I've had relations with more guys in the past six months than in my whole life prior. Not relationships, mind you — just meaningless flings and sex. I've recently decided that I hate it, and like other things I've given up in life (smoking, drinking) I want to give up sex and men altogether, cold turkey. Just for awhile, so that I can get back to knowing myself and what I want. Is this the best way of getting over the pointless hook-ups that I liked mainly for the attention?
— Hermitude
Dear Hermitude,
Your letter reads not so much as a question, but rather as a request for a cheering section. To which I respond "Yes! Wholeheartedly yes!" If you think you need to take a break, take one. Focus on your job/take that macramé class you've always wanted to/choreograph the shit out of some interpretive dances. If you think you've been having sex for the wrong reasons, by all means, put yourself on hiatus. For all its strengths, sex can be a big distraction from other, important things in life that might be calling out for attention. Tend to those other urges, and put sex on the back burner. A+, Go Team, Highly Recommended, Gold Stars for All.
During this process, though, don't shut yourself down. Men aren't, and never were, the enemy. Any "break" should be about refocusing on yourself and clarifying what you want from a relationship, not about avoiding guys as a whole. Worthwhile men are out there; great ones may even help you in your evolution. Don't let a few bad experiences close you off to half of the population. Consider this a regrouping, a recentering of priorities — not a "swearing off" or "quitting cold turkey." Knowing yourself can only reap dividends.
Commentarium (42 Comments)
The first response was the hottest thing I've read today.
I second that!
Yeah, I guess. But what a drag, having to pre-plan all kinds of subtle movements to send just the right message. It reads like instructions for working with unbroken horses--no subtle movements, look her straight in the eye, speak in a soft voice...offer her a carrot with palm up so she doesn't munch your finger. I know it can spoil the mood, but why not admit that the body language dialog is pretty contrived, and try talking to her. Pass it off as humor to break the awkwardness. If she has short hair, say that a website advice column told you to brush the hair from her face and then present her with a wig or, like, cooked spaghetti noodles or something as a substitute (no sauce).
I grew up in a super religious family and it took me a long time to get into the dating groove of things. Coming from that experience, I would say that Touchy Situation needs to be VERY VERY patient. I would also warn that, with that level of discomfort with physicality, she may be a huge long way from getting it on. Know that it has nothing to do with you, and play it cool. May the force be with you, etc. Any fuck-upness has nothing to do with you, and bless you if you have the gumption to stick it out...
I throughly enjoy reading Miss Information. I feel like a good friend would give responses like these. Yeah for sensitivity and respect, what rare gems you are.
She's pretty much the best friend ever.
agree! Gold Star for YOU, Miss Info :)
Wow, I disagree completely with the advice for the first guy. There is no bigger turn off than some guy pawing you in a tentative, under-confident manner. She's probably thinking, why is this relationship business so fucking hard. I assume that the girl has not suffered abuse or anything like that. In which case grab the bull by the horns and go for it. If she looks like she isn't enjoying it stop, apologize and then at least you will all know where you stand. The attraction is there or is isn't; if it is she'll want you to jump her bones.
I disagree completely with you, popsy. If you are a girl who is too shy or insecure to initiate sex, please do not assume all women are the same way. This can be a learned behavior, just like most things. I for one am put off by guys who are too aggressive, unless I've made clear I want them to be.
This is why relationships can be challenging. Without clear signalling, it's easy to take the wrong hint and turn into the overly-aggressive ahole or the pawing, under-confident jerk (instead of the confident and sexually forward charmer or the relaxed and caring dreamboat). I'm guessing Miss Info got this one right, tho.
re: the 1st letter. Isn't it possible she's a deeply closeted lesbian? After all, 10% of our population is gay.
Okay. It's also possible she isn't. After all, 10% of our population is gay.
She could be left-handed as well. Up to 15% of the population is. Maybe he's just on her right (wrong) side.
HA! Jaycee!
About the first letter...is it possible that she really was just physically uncomfortable? Sitting in the same position for 2 hours in a movie theatre with some guys arm in your back can get a little uncomfortable. There seem to be a lot of assumptions in that letter. I didn't really date until I was out of college but I wasn't afraid of physical intimacy. Here's an idea, have a conversation with her. And if she tells you she just wants to take it slowly, then Miss Info's advice is right on.
do 'couples' just don't talk about this shit. i've had talk with people i'm dating about PDA s, etc. she's prolly just awkward if she doesn't have much experience having a 'boyfriend'. i grew up in an un affectionate household, doing affectionate things in adult life still feels awkward. sheez. just talk to her. aren't you like getting to know her?
Although I agree wholeheartedly with the advice to the 1st letter, I offer another way to deal with the situation. It might not be the most romantic way, but it worked pretty well with me. I was a little reluctant to be involved, in part because of some previous issues when I was too young to know better, but my boyfriend basically gave me all of the power. Instead of waiting for me to kiss him, ect however he would just ask. Do you want to hold my hand, can i kiss you, ect. Part of a good relationship is good communication, and even in this it can be a good way to start, even if it isnt storybook romantic. (and eventually it allowed me to be able to tell him exactly what felt good, and what I wanted in bed lol)
This advice actually sounds double-great, because then you're more prepared to have more difficult talks in the future. A slightly unromantic but really great ways to bust the doors of communication right open.
hands-down the best idea. she'll just be more uncomfortable if she doesn't know what's going on. she probably won't take the lead EVER if she's never done any of that before.
Good advice, but skip the macramé.
@Hermitude!
YES! I went through this several years ago, and took about a year off. I was so happy and at peace and then when I was ready to get with someone again, I WAS REALLY READY. For the right reasons! Enjoy yourself by enjoying yourSELF for a while!
https://naughtyspot.net
My only problem with this week was that the Hermitude question seems a lot less interesting than the one that was on Please Advise this week, and I wish she'd tackled that instead. Like we don't know how Miss Info feels about taking some time off and working on yourself.
"I am dating a girl who's never had a boyfriend or even been kissed, and I am not entirely sure how to go about it. We've been friends for years now, and our mutual affection has recently come to light. We decided to give dating a shot."
The lack of ages really makes this a toss-up, but here goes...
You have been friends for years. How long? Did it occur to you that after being her friend for so long, it might just be a little creepy to be on a date with you? Did she say yes to the date so as to avoid hurting your feelings? Take two steps back, please. Have an open discussion with her. Tell her about the feelings you have for her and ask for a honest response. Does she also have feelings for you? If so, *then* suggest a polite kiss. It's a good follow-up to some preliminary emotional bonding. If she was just being polite, work on getting past the awkwardness so you keep your friend.
The advice to the first lw might work, but it takes a lot of people-reading skills to be able to finesse the situation so subtly. There's a lot of room to mess things up by going about it that way. I'd suggest verbalizing things - at least at first. That way both parties know what's going on, which should put her at ease. You can be playful about it - just say, "I want to hold your hand", and then grab her hand. When appropriate, say, "Can I kiss you?" and as long as she doesn't recoil in horror, go in for a quick kiss. Stay at kissing and holding hands for a while to let her get comfortable with that level of intimacy before trying to move forward. And talk about things. Say "we can move slow if you want - I just enjoy kissing you." And see what she says. The problem with putting the ball totally in her court, as ms info suggests, is that she may not know what to do, and she may assume that if the guy isn't making a move, that he isn't interested. Since they already had a talk about being mutually attracted and wanting to date, the lw can proceed on the assumption that she's interested, and it's just a matter of setting a pace that she's comfortable with, not of sussing out her interest in him entirely.
One thing that I think is missing with both letters is that there are unasked questions about the underlying reasons for this. With LW 1, it's hard to know given the ages of the woman in question, but when I hear "long time without an interesting dating + freezes up with physical contact from someone she likes" I wonder: is there a possibility of abuse in her past? I'm not assuming that that's the case, but I think it's worth bringing up.
With LW 2, in the very first line she's describing a recent and pretty drastic change in behavior, and she's admitting that she didn't even realize that she "hates" it. Then she suggests an equally drastic and 180-degree change in behavior. Red flags here ... Yes, the specific step she suggests -- backing off of the flings to give herself time to explore what's going on -- is fine. But her letter is crying out for someone to ask: What's with the change? What happened six months ago that caused you to act so differently? And what caused you to conclude that you hated it?
Oops, I mean "interest in dating," not "interesting dating."
As someone very recently in the same situation written about in the first letter, I want to say that the advice to just verbalize helps SO much. It can still be romantic when someone whispers to you if something is okay before contact is made. And that way the other person will be reassured that it really is okay with you, despite you not giving the "normal" signs of it being okay. It can be really frustrating and scary when you think you're doing everything wrong, you're hurting this guy's feelings, etc. And things can still be mistaken if you try to help her be the pursuer. So, yeah, try out both ways, but in my experience, asking is better. I think later, encouraging her to pursue you will be great. But for now.... just be really verbal and clear. Also.... don't be surprised if she has been abused, it's pretty common. And since this girl sounds a lot like me, I feel it's pretty possible we were kiss-less for so long for the same reasons. We learn to live with it, but finally beginning a physical relationship is a challenge we tried putting off for as long as we could. You sound like a nice guy, be kind and this will help her a lot, even if she hasn't been abused and is just really inexperienced.
I think this is only time I've thought you were steering people wrong. For L1, giving such specific physical advice is kind of out of the league of what has seemed to be what this column is about.
How about the guy sits down and talks about the issue of physical contact with her for a bit? He says they've been friends for years. He should find out where her comfort zone is, reassure her that it's fine, and then they can both move forward.
I mean, for all we know she isn't sure how to tell him she's having second thoughts about moving the friendship into the relationship phase. It can be any number of things. I've learned it's best not fumble around ignorantly. Ask about things and don't take anything personally.
Absolutely loved the advice to the first letter-writer. I thought it was fantastic and right on target.
Anything could be going on with that 1st girl. Disinterested, or unsure, or uptight, or formerly sexually abused, etc. Talk. Keep it simple. "Do you want a take-charge guy? Would you prefer that I generally ask first? Do you want to be the one to take the lead?"
Well I didn't kiss anyone until I was 18, and hadn't even held hands until I was 17. I simply hadn't had opportunity; none of the boys I liked liked me back. Sometimes inexperience really is just that.
I'm a little surprised there wasn't any of Cait's typical "Men holding women under the thumb of the patriarchy" nonsense in her advice to LW1. Have the Hooksexup editors impressed upon her to lighten up? Shockingly enough, I also don't disagree with her advice, although I believe, like many of her commenters, that the two need to talk it out.
And LW2 should not only take some time off, but perhaps talk to a counselor about the reasons behind her self-destructive bent these last 6 months. Bad breakup? Professional setback? We don't know what the root cause of her behavior was, but it might be worth exploring.
Thank you for sharing. I'm sure Ms. Robinson is duly grateful for your grudging approval.
@BRILLIANT! I would be if I weren't currently squirming under the patriarchy's oppressive, oppressive thumb. Oof, the patriarchy needs a manicure.
In response to the touching guy, please, please, please ASK before initiating any touch! You don't have to be awkward about it but a simple "is it alright if I hold your hand?" goes SO, SO FAR. Don't be the creep that drops hints and expects her to pick them up. That's juvenile shit.
The only way you can know if she wants you to touch her is by asking. This will go a long way toward her building confidence and security and being able to trust you. Repeatedly trying to touch someone without checking in does not build trust in the recipient of your advances.
I recommend this zine on consent which goes over all the basics of initiating consent in your relationships, which is especially crucial if your partner has been a victim of assault.
https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/2879
"In response to the touching guy, please, please, please ASK before initiating any touch! You don't have to be awkward about it but a simple "is it alright if I hold your hand?" goes SO, SO FAR."
I've been told by MANY women that being asked "can I hold your hand?" and so on is a huge turn-off, because it makes them self-conscious and shows that (take your pick) the guy can't "read" them / isn't self-confident enough to make his move / isn't the kind of guy they want to date / whatever.
That said, the dynamic here is a little different, and for that matter all women are different. But still, I'm not sure that making a self-conscious person MORE self-conscious is always the way to go.
Personally, I'd give it a while. If you're the more experienced partner, then you have some leeway in taking the lead, and establishing a kind of nonverbal trust where you intuitively sense her boundaries, and she gradually sees physicality as a source of pleasure, rather than a gateway to loss -- that is, having something taken from her (virginity, autonomy, religious purity, whatever).
If she keeps responding ambivalently to touch, I'd have a conversation in a non-sexual context about what's going on and how she's feeling. If her answers were evasive or I-don't-want-to-talk-about-it (as I fear might happen in LW1's case), I'd consider moving on. We all deserve someone who views sexuality positively and with a sense of wonder and delight; we all deserve someone capable of being candid about what they're feeling, and having insight into why they're feeling it.
I have to say I disagree with Miss Info's response to the first question. As a 22yo female who's mostly in the same situation as the girlfriend, there's NO way I would be the one to initiate physical contact. I think it's highly unrealistic to expect someone with zero sexual experience to be the pursuer. While it's possible that she's just more aggressive than I am, it seems unlikely.
Communication -- verbal communication -- is the key here. If you've been friends for years, saying "I want to kiss you" or offering her your hand shouldn't be too difficult. That way she knows what to expect and she can respond appropriately. On the other hand, she may just not be into the relationship (an issue which could also be solved with communication).
Bottom line: talk about it. If you can't ask her if she's okay with the physical aspect of your relationship -- or indeed about your relationship in general -- maybe you need to rethink whether you should be pursuing this relationship right now.
For advice on what _not_ to do in LW1's situation, read "On Chesil Beach".
On second thought - don't. It's a horrible book. (Take away: don't stop masturbating 2 weeks before marrying a shy, virginal bride WITH WHOM YOU DON'T TALK ABOUT SEX. There. I've saved you the pain of reading it. You're welcome.)
I don't know how old the couple are in the first letter, but I think the other major thing that need to be communicated is that sexual contact of any kind is completely totally optional, not an inevitability.
You have to honestly be able to say "I can totally live without it." Take it or leave it. Otherwise, every kind of physical contact, even hand-holding and arm-around-the-shoulder-ing, will be seen as both a prelude to sex and a substitute. As in, "he'd rather we were having sex, but until I"m ready he's making-do with this." That's a guaranteed pressure cooker for her.
But more importantly, it takes the joy out of the moment. Just making out is AWESOME. (people over the age of 15 forget this, to our detriment) Snuggling while watching a movie is AWESOME (assuming there are no armrests jutting into your spleen).
Sex is also AWESOME. For the vast majority of us, it is our favorite way of being close with another human. But it is not the end-all be-all of physical contact. LW1 has to believe that. His girlfriend has to believe that too. So he could say something like, "Sex is great. I like sex. I think sex with you would be AWESOME. But there are lots of other AWESOME things. And right now what matters is enjoying the time we spend together. What we do doesn't matter."
For the Dan Savage lurkers, yes, I know, if he has sexual needs that are not being fulfilled *eventually*, that will be a problem. But, from personal experience, taking the pressure off, not making sex inevitable, makes a shy, inexperienced person less anxious, more confident. And the sex was better for it. (And happened more quickly than I anticipated, FWIW)
I think the dialogue around "talk about it?" or "don't talk about it" in regards to LW1 is really interesting, and several things caught my attention--too many to respond directly to each.
There are two equally valid schools of thought here. While I believe verbalizing things is a great and often necessary thing (especially so once the couple gets into more sexual situations), I think that, in the beginning stages, verbalization can bring on too much pressure. If someone says "Can I hold your hand?", that gets processed intellectually, and you can come up with a million reasons why not: "my palms are sweaty/ I don't know/ what if my parents' friend sees us?", etc. But if it happens organically, it happens organically. Asking permission for every little thing can be tedious for both parties.
I do like Kevin's approach to ask broader questions: "Do you prefer a take-charge guy?" That way it's an overview, not precious heat-of-the-moment overthought.
@ BrosephofArimathea: Mmm, you seem to have low standards for "hot." Call me?
Fialnly! This is just what I was looking for.
NICE N TIGHT (I) YUMMY
Now you say something