Savage Love
I placed a kinky Craigslist ad, and one of my coworkers answered it.
By Dan Savage
I’m twenty-six, straight, and male. I consider myself a socially progressive person, have been a vocal supporter of LGBT issues since high school, and was president of my college Gay-Straight Alliance. Here’s my issue: I fully support the trans community. I have numerous friends in varying states of transition and I’m 100 percent behind them. But in my own dating life, I wouldn’t feel comfortable dating/having sex with a woman who had at one point in her life been a man. I realize I wouldn’t be fucking a dude, but it’s a mental hurdle I can’t clear. All my LGBTQA friends — be they trans, gay, bi — call me a transphobe, because if I were truly on their side, if I truly “understood,” then sex with a MTF straight woman would be no different than sex with a cisgender straight woman. Do I have the right to not feel comfortable with the idea (or reality) of having sex with these women and still consider myself a supporter of the trans community? Are my friends being unreasonable by judging me against their schema of appropriate sexuality? Or am I a hypocrite?
— Fears Real Activism Undermined [by] Dick
“He’s not transphobic — not in my book,” says Kate Bornstein, author, performer, “advocate for teens, freaks, and other outlaws,” and herself a trans woman. “One more thing he’s not is straight. Sex-positive, supportive of trans folk, and heterosexual? Cool! He’s a queer heterosexual — and some of my best friends are queer heterosexuals.”
As for your specific issue — you’re not attracted to trans women — Bornstein says that by itself isn’t evidence of transphobia.
“A queer heterosexual is just as entitled to the fulfillment of their sex and gender desires as anyone else,” says Bornstein. “Sometimes those desires depend on the nature of their lover’s body. Well, trans people have bodies that are different than cis people’s bodies. We’re two (or more) mints in one — a physical blend that attracts a lot of people. FRAUD just doesn’t happen to be one of them. The fact that he’s sensitive to that blending of genders in our bodies does not make him transphobic.”
What can you do about it?
“Go have good sex with cis women,” says Bornstein. Whatever else you do, FRAUD, Bornstein wants you to stop identifying as straight.
“He’s part of our queer tribe,” she says. “And who knows? One day, he might meet the right trans person.”
And who knows? One day, your cranky LGBTQA friends might accept who you are just as you’ve accepted them. Make an effort to use “attracted to cis women” in place of “wouldn’t feel comfortable dating” trans women, and you’ll hasten that day’s arrival.
Kate Bornstein’s new memoir, A Queer and Pleasant Danger (Beacon Press), will be published in the spring. Follow her on Twitter @katebornstein. (Follow me @fakedansavage.)
I’m a twenty-six-year-old guy in a polyamorous relationship. As this is my first kick at the poly can, I wasn’t dying to tell my family, “Hey, I’m dating a married woman!” However, through the magic of Facebook, my brother found out that the girl I’m seeing has a husband. Once I was “busted,” I discussed the situation with my sister-in-law. The issue is that my GF and her husband have a ten-year-old son. This isn’t an issue for me, but my brother has compared the poly community to drug addicts and stated that Child Protective Services should remove my girlfriend’s child from her home, etc. My brother and his wife are now threatening to cut me out of their lives — as well as their children’s lives, whom I care for a great deal — if I don’t dump the girlfriend. Thoughts?
— Forced To Pick
Right off the top of my head: your brother is a shit-smeared asshole, your sister-in-law is an ass-smeared shithole, and they’d be doing you a huge favor if they cut you out of their lives.
Pick the GF, FTP. That might mean you won’t see your nieces/nephews for a while, which would be sad for you and bad for those kids (children with crazy, controlling parents need to spend quality time with saner family members). But if you dump your girlfriend at their insistence — if you fail to stand up to them — you will have established a dangerous precedent: your love life isn’t yours to manage, it’s theirs, and all your future partners will be subject to their batshittery/scrutiny and, if they disapprove of any future girlfriends (concurrent or subsequent), they will attempt to exercise the veto power you ceded to them during this conflict.
Your brother and sister-in-law are bullies, FTP, and you’ve got to defend yourself. So long as your GF and her husband aren’t doing anything inappropriate in front of their son and they’re not placing unfair burdens on their son (they don’t expect him to keep secrets, if they’re not out about being poly; they don’t expect him to be out about his parents being poly, if they are out and he’s not comfortable sharing that info with his friends), you need to come to their defense, too. And you might want to consult a lawyer now, just in case your brother and sister-in-law call CPS.
I am a twenty-nine-year-old male with a fetish for snapping pictures of women’s legs and feet in nylons. I look for women online who will allow me to pay them to take these pictures. I recently posted an ad and received a reply from a coworker. I find her very attractive and would like to photograph her legs and feet. How should I handle this?
— Sent From My Mobile Device
Here’s a relevant story from the files: Vanilla Gay pays a social call on Kinky Gay. KG informs VG that there’s a Hot Dude tied up in his playroom. KG invites VG to view HD. KG is right: HD is hot. HD is also, as it turns out, one of VG’s coworkers — one of VG’s straight coworkers.
It was an unexpected twist of fate — HD didn’t know that VG and KG were friends — that resulted in VG discovering something about HD that HD didn’t choose to reveal to VG. (A twist of fate and the rules HD agreed to when he played with KG: HD had consented to KG showing him off.) While it’s possible that HD wouldn’t have cared that VG knew his secret, it was likelier that HD, if he knew VG knew his bi-for-bondage secret, would’ve felt embarrassed around his coworker — not to mention compromised during any routine workplace conflicts with VG. I urged VG to keep his mouth shut.
In your case, SFMMD, while it’s possible that your coworker doesn’t care who knows that she does fetish modeling on the side for extra money and/or thrills, it’s likelier that she would be embarrassed to learn that someone she knows professionally discovered what she’s doing. There are plenty of other women out there, and plenty of other legs and feet to photograph. Keep your mouth shut.
I was reading a letter in your archives from a woman who didn’t have much libido. I was disappointed that you didn’t mention that decreased libido is a common side effect of almost every form of hormonal birth control. The first thing a woman with low libido should do, if she’s been on the same pill for years, is to switch methods. I would love it if you’d mention this in your column.
— Spread The Word
Done and done.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage
[email protected]
Commentarium (80 Comments)
Queer heterosexual? That's unnecessary and confusing. We don't need new terms for every goddamn thing.
yeah, i don't really get it. i mean, he just supports the gay community, why does that require a title change? and it's very confusing. did he date dudes before? i didn't get that impression.
ya, that was completely unnecessary and has nothing to do with the topic. he's just a normal straight dude, the best kind, who appreciate people for who they are but doesn't have to sleep with them. i know a bunch of those people, they are just normal heterosexuals. why add unneeded titles to scare people away...
I am also uncomfortable with calling oneself queer when you still enjoy the best of het privilege.
It also seems to villainize straight people as a whole. Like the very act of being straight implies homophobia/transphobia/biphobia/whatever. That's just stupid. Straight, gay and bi are just three sides of a... three-sided object. None of them pass a value judgment on the person who identifies with them.
I concur. The weird "you are not straight, you are queer heterosexual" thing is basically reinforcing the dubious notion that straight people are all anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-whatever.
@ nope - you said it perfectly. I hate the implication that calling myself straight somehow implies that I look down on everyone with different sexual preferences.
I believe they called him a queeer heterosexual because he said he was attracted to cisgender women which is, as wikipedia describes it, a man in a woman's body. However, he didn't say that he was exclusively attracted to cisgender women . I agreee that this is a case of over-categorization.
Cisgender means your gender identity and your biological sex align (a woman in a woman's body) and he does imply he is exclusively attracted to cisgender women...
Why would people feel like they have the right to be out-calling other people around? I mean really, whats up with that?
I think I can jerk off to those legs on the pic if I try hard enough. Yuuum.
haha "the magic of Facebook." it's insane how it affects fucking everything.
Precisely why I categorically refuse to get on Facebook.
don't worry, you're not missing much.
I really hate the idea of having to call myself a cis woman. Now I'm not saying what I went through compares in any way with what trans people are dealing with, but I struggled for years with the idea that I was somehow deficient or broken because I wasn't "feminine" in the way that it was defined that I grew up, and that because my body was clearly "femininine," the problem was me. "Cis" seems to imply everything hunky-dory, aren't you lucky, your gender identity and your body perfectly align. That wasn't the case, but it also wasn't the case that I could ever be considered trans by any means.
"Cis" just means "not trans." It doesn't have to have all of that added baggage. And I don't think cisgendered people generally "have" to identify themselves as cis except when part of a conversation about trans people.
Is it okay to be a cissy?
Always, baby!
FRAUD should be entitled to his preference of women from within the full range of women. Being attracted to women doesn't mean being attracted to all women - everybody has preferences. Some don't like women who are too skinny, some don't like women who are very tall, and so on. Just as gay men should not be presumed to find all men attractive, straight men should not be presumed to find all women attractive. I wonder if FRAUD's friends would think a lesbian with the same preference for cis women is trans-phobic?
There are skinny cis women. There are fat trans women. There are cis women who get transphobically abused "for being mannish". There are trans women who don't. FRAUD seems to be saying, basically, "I'm not attracted to women whom I know to be trans", and for fuck's sake, there's no way to tell 100% who's trans and who isn't. How is this not transphobic, then? What would he say if he'd met a girl and some time later, having already dated, felt attracted to her, had sex or whatever, was advised that she is trans?
saying your not attracted to woman as soon as you know they are trans is garbage. being trans is not the same as being blonde, or skinny, or heavy set, or any other physical characteristic <.<
It sort of is though. In terms of what the physical body looks like, there are sometimes differences even after transition. But what it seems like in this situation is that he has a mental block about it. And that's fine. It's perfectly understandable that he can be supportive of trans people and not want to date them. Not being attracted to a person and hating them are two completely different things.
OH GOD ENOUGH AMERICAN POLITICS ALREADY. Stop deforming my sexual preference into an obligation for political activity.
Not being prejudiced does not make you queer.
While I agree that not being prejudiced doesn't make you queer, I don't get the jump to American politics.
Are you kidding? I find women's feet and legs incredibly sexy and would give anything to share that with one or two of my hot coworkers. Just think of the sexual vibe at the office after one of your photo sessions. Just do it!
I for once have counter advice, for LW3. Why not just Courage Wolf-it and reveal your identity? There may be a beautiful nylon-based relationship to be had. If it all goes bonkers, no one is going to get permanently hurt.
Somehow I don't think you have to identify yourself as a "fetish photographer" to take risqué photographs. Photography enthusiasts generally like to find interesting things to take photos of, and paying a model for poses or scenes that random-person-off-street won't do for a stranger for free is expected. It doesn't have to translate to higher anxiety at work.
It seems like Kate didn't answer the questions at all
It's Dan. It seems like you didn't read the title at all.
Guy A is being transphobic. It wouldn't be if he'd said "I've never been attracted to or wanted to have sex with a trans woman", but it is because he's saying he would never ever be OK with being with someone trans.
I wouldn't be ok being with someone I wasn't attracted to.
I don't think it's right to use the term "transphobic." He says he's okay with MTFs as people but they just don't match his sexual preferences. Like everyone has been saying, it's all a matter of preference.
And just throwing this out there: I think the term "queer heterosexual" is kinda silly.
Agreed - it's just stating a preference, in the same way that you can be cool with people having tattoos but not find them personally attractive.
@Pickle:
Yeah, let's go after the REAL enemy. Guys who have actually worked to support transwomen's rights politically, but don't want to have sex with Transwoman personally. At the end of the day, Pickle, you can say with enthusiasm "My activist dick is bigger than your activist dick." There you go! You won the contest of being the best! After all, what more is activism but an opportunity to show off your moral superiority.
Saying "MTFs as people" covers a huge broad spectrum of people. It's absofuckinglutely certain that this great stonking group contains at least one woman who would be sexually compatible with FRAUD. He, however, states that he's not attracted to anyone in this humongous spectrum, as long as he's aware that the woman in question is trans. How is this not transphobic?
the difference is, being trans is not like having a tattoo. some trans people have tattoos and some don't. He is saying that his attraction is based on who the person is, not what they look like. It's pathetic that all the cis people are jumping in and making statements that generalize all trans women as having a certain "look" that one might not be attracted to. All of this is stupid cis privilege running a muck using every excuse in the book to say that it's perfectly ok to refuse to date someone despite looks, personality, likes, dislikes, and outright refuse them because of the way they were in the past <.<
"Queer heterosexual" is the first term to ever adequately explain my sexual preferences. I'm a woman attracted to men but I definitely do not conform to gender roles. I don't feel like a man in a woman's body but I have always felt more comfortable and in my element around men. I learned to be feminine and get along well with women but I hardly ever identify with them. I think I just have really high testosterone levels (ring finger is way longer than pointer finger...). Recently I embraced my true nature and took up MMA. No activity has ever made me happier but I quickly found out I have to keep it a secret because it's such a high degree of gender bending that it freaks other people out. My non-adherence to gender roles is why I've always been really into the LGBT community but didn't technically feel like I fit in since I was "straight." If you don't like the term it's probably because it simply doesn't apply to you.
That's different though, because "queer" for you identifies the fluidity of your gender. Using it to identify that you aren't a homophobe or transphobe is really strange.
S -- sounds to me like you're using queer in regards to your gender identity, not your sexual orientation. Like you are both "queer" and "heterosexual." The guy in the letter didn't say anything about how his gender identity was unusually femme or queer in any way.
I think many people dislike the term because it implies that you can't be straight and supportive of the LGBT community.
It also seems to imply that being supportive of the LGBT community is abnormal ("queer"). Shouldn't universal respect for all communities be normal?
How about instead of calling allies "queer heterosexuals" we just call everyone else homophobic. Makes it a lot easier, and if people know you as queer they expect you to dress better.
seriously! Why do we have to label everyone else as "homophobic?"
Queer Tribe? Please? When will the Human race finially be a united tribe?
I have friends (one male and one female, once upon a time coupled) who identified as queer though they only engaged in heterosexual sex because the sex they did engage in was non-vanilla, non-mainstream and therefore to them 'queer' - does that count?
Sounds like BS to me. Being straight and kinky doesn't make you not straight, that doesn't make any fucking sense.
Sex between a man and a woman is still heterosexual sex, no matter what kind of sex they do to each other. If she pegs him, it's still heterosexual sex. Just the same, if a woman uses a strap-on on her female partner, it's still queer/lesbian sex. Just because a phallic object is used does not make the sex "hetero." So no, your friends were not queer. They were non-vanilla, non-mainstream, but still hetero.
Can we not just get rid of the fudging labels?seriously as Shakespeare said "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet".If i am a girl and i feel happy as a girl then why have i suddenly become a cisgirl(if its the same thing)?can i not just call a spade a spade?
If there isn't a special name, it doesn't exist.
Also, to the guy taking photographs of legs: Couldn't you just email your co-worker, let her know that you know her "IRL", and ask if she'd still be comfortable with letting you snap her legs?
The point isn't that he knows the woman "IRL", but that she's a work acquaintance. It would be a different situation if she was a casual friend, or a friend of a friend, but since this is a work situation, where she might suddenly be inclined to call "sexual harassment", it's probably best to let it be.
There is some cis privilege going on in this thread, man. Dear people who wish they didn't have to identify as cis that one time every year or so when you're talking about trans identity -- don't you think trans people wish they didn't have to identify every day of their fucking lives as trans? Don't you think a trans woman/man, fully transitioned, would rather just be known as a woman/man? And sure, a lot of them do, but to a lot of people that's somehow lying or being deceitful. I don't think it takes much out of you to identify as cis on the rare occasion when you are discussing trans identity and issues. It's not such a hardship to get your panties in a knot, especially when you consider all of the fucking bullshit trans people have to put up with that you don't have to get near.
Saying that you don't want to have to identify as "cis" is insulting, by the way, because it implies that because you are "normal" or status quo, you shouldn't have to identify yourself, only the "abnormal" should have to identify themselves.
I don't have to identify as cis. If queer-theorists need these labels in their academic writing for clarity, that's fine, but systematically adding prefixes to unambiguous gender identities in everyday life is purely a political power move.
How in the fuck is it a "political power move"? Again, you're doing the exact shit I was talking about in the last paragraph: "I'm normal, I don't need a word to describe me."
And you're only "cisgendered" when it comes up. The same way you're only straight, or white, or whatever, when it comes up. None of those rob you of anything, they're just a statement of fact. What's so objectionable about that?
You assuming that I'm trying to assert my normalcy here is what's blatantly political. You're the one making it "us vs. them" when all I'm saying is that simplicity is key if you expect to affect the lexicon. We already have a word for "cis-women"...it's women. Any self-identifying woman is a woman, and when it's relevant, such as in queer theory literature or if these distinctions come up in real life, then she can add any appropriately clarifying prefixes.
I resent being expected to pick up all these new terms just to appease those who feel that the current vocab disrespects them in some way. Any new words have to be functional, not excessive, period.
I agree with S. I'm a woman. Whether I was born that way or not doesn't matter. If you want to ask me about it, I'll tell you, but I don't need to make up some special word for it.
"Don't you think a trans woman/man, fully transitioned, would rather just be known as a woman/man? " Um, yes, that's why I just refer to them as a woman or a man, unless I have been specifically instructed by that person that they prefer a different label. If I know the bathroom is right around the corner from where the transwoman in the black dress is standing, I don't say "It's right over there around the corner from where the transwoman in the black dress is standing." I say "right over there around the corner from where the woman in the black dress is standing." I know a lot of groups hate it when people make presumptions about them, like when someone who is visibly transitioning is referred to as a "trannie" or as the gender from which they are transitioning. When you call me cis, you're making some pretty big presumptions too. Most of us, cis or trans, pretty clearly indicate our gender identity preference by effectively acting out said identity. So it's a pretty safe bet that if she looks like a woman, walks like a woman, and talks like a woman, she wants to be called a woman, and you're probably just making trouble by adding a prefix.
True, but with exceptions. Many butch women look like a man, walk like a man and dress like a man but thank you, they are very happy to be acknowledged as what they are - women. Then again, there are many people who fall somewhere between the binary gender lines. Or as a friend of mine said "butch is a gender." And you know what? I got it.
What if a man wears panties and his only variety of sex is his wife pegging him,? He finds the thought of sex with a man repulsive, but some of his best friends as gay, and he likes the opera and NASCAR. What do we call him? Just asking.
What do we call a man who only has sex with women? Straight. Duh.
on who he is attracted to. you saying that is like saying someone who is bi who has only had sex with women, is either straight or a lesbian?
your over simplifying human sexuality. Duh
Kate may know what she's talking about and all, but still sounds kinda like a nut. And that's coming from queer, lesbo, trans or whatever you think you need to call me. If he says he's a straight heterosexual, then we should respect that.
Fuckin duh.
Do all LGBT peeps consider themselves a part of Kate's "Queer Tribe"? If not, would that make them hetero-queer?
When I was a little JCB my roommate and I were bored (okay, we were stoned) and amusing ourselves by looking through CL Casual Encounters. We decided it would be fun to create our own ad, just as an experiment to see what kind of responses we got. We settled on the persona of a single late-30s career woman, brisk and competent yet intensely sexual, seeking a single man for various kinky sex acts.
The experiment ended after our dummy account received hundreds of messages, including fully nude photos of TWO people I knew - our creepy married next door neighbor, and my creepy married manager at work. I actually felt sorry for this imaginary person we created. And I deleted the pictures and never tried such a thing again. Some things are better off unknown.
you know normally I enjoy reading this stuff but that first Q and A was just ridiculous. Does everything have to be labeled? If I don't want to fuck a specific race does that make me racist? No, it means I have preferences. Cisgender? Really? Quit making shit up for profit. I just call that normal.
I don't need a label for a woman who is feminine in parts but masculine in mentality. Or the other way around. I don't need a label to tell me that my body matches my mind. IF your body doesn't match your mind, that is your fault. You can be a feminine mind with a masculine body. No one is stopping you. For you to want a different body is a personal mental issue.
Anyway- sometimes quoting others sucks. That Borstein person is one of them. Identify however you want to man, its your right. Don't let some person you have never met that has no idea how you feel or who you are tell you not to be straight. Thats terrible advice. I want to yell at him/her for saying it in the first place.
Bob- I love you. Finally some common sense. Seriously- I don't give a three quarter fuck who you (you as the general LGBQT Community) represent as, who you fuck, or how you have to put yourself down on paper for the authorities. I recognize that as someone who is different, you have challenges. Everyone does. Stop trying to letterbox people- it's the thing you are trying to escape, and you are doing it too!
bob, your an idiot. "IF your body doesn't match your mind, that is your fault."
what pile of ableist, cissexist bull is this? really? so I suppose people who are born with down syndrome are at fault for their own mental state? or waaaiiiit, your going to tell me that it isn't the same. both are a mental state. NEITHER were chosen. NO ONE is at fault for the conditions. I suppose I chose to be autistic? how exactly is making an equal label for asses like you making shit up for profit. You are the worst example of a cis person by far, and I would gladly replace calling you cis with calling you an ignorant ass if you like :) that way I'm not making it up for profit
Wow first world problems abound in this column - do you think people in Bedouin tribes sit there worrying about whether what label to give themselves when they feel like a fuck? Can't help thinking these people are destroying the mystery of human relationships and sexuality.
Probably not, as most Bedouin cultures have very strict rules around sex in general. What on Earth do you mean by "these people are destroying the mystery of human relationships and sexuality" though?
True story about hormonal birth control and libido. I was on the pill for years, finally went off it due to migraines, and was shocked at how intensely sexual I was in my natural state. After years of fretting about why I didn't enjoy sex, didn't get off from oral sex, didn't get wet enough, etc. I'm sure millions of women are in this situation and just don't know it.
Just because a dude dresses like a lady doesn't mean he isn't still a dude. In his mind, maybe he wants to become a woman, but no matter what he does, he never will be one. Sure he can act like one, dress like one, cut off his parts so he seems more like one, try to convince everyone that he is one and so on. People can pass laws forcing people to at least not be openly antagonistic or prejudicial towards them, but all the labels don't change nature.
you are a grade A ignorant asshole. grats
Being normal just doesn't seem to cut it these days.
you people are all insane
good jockstrap, that was an ableist statement
Labels are just a way to generalize people. Generalizing people is usually the haven of bigots and the intellectually lazy.
Dan, given how sex positive Savage Love is (your column changed my marriage, but that's a whole different story), I'm surprised that you would give so little space/ commentary to the birth control and libido issue. It's a big one for a lot of women, and many of us spent years thinking we were frigid or just mildly sexual, unaware what our real responses were until we went off birth control pills.
And if you think this is a minority, privileged issue, here's a story. Part of my work has to do with women who live in slums in India. An excellent NGO was working hard to change attitudes to birth control, but they got nowhere with the pill--because women who'd used the pill were blunt about the effect it had on their libido. A condom drive worked out fine, but it was amazing to see the pill rejection--given that the pill was about a third cheaper. "One of the few pleasures you have when you don't have a large income is fucking," one woman told me. "Don't you come on in and take that away from me, okay?"
Yay, at least no one can call that letter a "First World Problem."
If birth control stifles the female libido, I can never stop taking it. My husband can barely keep up with me while I'm on it. Or does the fact that I take the patch rather than the pill have something to do with this? I have never experienced this side effect, so I can't believe it does it to every person who takes it. I would say that this should be listed under "possible side effects", though, because those it would affect would prefer to know ahead of time.
It's a scary world....the fact is anyone may one day find that there perfect mate is the same sex they are.....and for people who think in black and white instead of shades of gray that's scary. I've been straight forever...so far...but i think meeting the 'right one' may be some shade of gray...either not the type you suspected...maybe not even the gender you suspected. If it happens you'll know and there won't really be any choice about it for you. Love is blind. It hits some from out of nowhere and it doesn't often makes sense.
Now you say something