Elizabeth, you're one of the smartest people I know. You can't have been taken in by this Brazilian fad, right?
What fad? Isn't this just the way things are and will ever be?
Ha. And sometime in the next fifty years, women will stop shaving their legs and armpits too — at least for a decade. Porn will again realize that it's sexier to see a vagina that looks like it belongs to a woman, not a kid. I personally like the subtle suggestion that hair gives: that the person you're doing it with isn't going to get you thrown in jail.
I think men like the idea that the person they're doing it with might get them thrown in jail.
Maybe some men. So I take it you chew bubblegum in bed and talk about the Jonas brothers?
I was once on a plane to Dublin. AerLingus in its drunken Irishness didn't assign seats, so this gentleman and I were figuring out who'd get the nicer seat. I was astonished he didn't defer to my status as a lady, but whatever. I said, "When you get a Brazilian wax, I'll let you have the better seat." He immediately got out of my way.
Your Irish guy was clearly raised by wolves. But what makes you wax in the first place? Not just to have another thing to hold over foreigners on planes?
Oh, I do it just to ensure that I get upgraded on airplanes. On American Airlines, I'm known as the Muffless Menace. But seriously, there's a strange truth to that: I think we women don't feel entirely female unless we're slaves to beauty.
But pubic deforestation seems pretty optional, no? In fact, I'm not sure I've seen a full-on Brazilian in a while, not that I've been checking...
Actually, I don't think it's a true Brazilian unless it all comes off. And how have you not been checking? You don't look down there when you're with someone?
Fear not: I'm not ignoring anything. But all off is pretty extreme, and doesn't even leave a breadstick of hair to symbolically say, "Ape-man, come ravish me!" And isn't that a nice message?
I don't want to fuck an ape. That's a gross thought.
But why would you want it all gone? Doesn't it itch? And isn't it a little little-girly? You say yourself it's annoying to have to do.
I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure why I do it. The first time it was curiosity, and the audience response — so to speak — was good. And there were all these annoying things about it, like bumps and ingrowns and stubble (ugh!), but again, the audience response had been very, very good. So I stuck with it.
Then the side effects went away and I found I felt better with nothing — and I mean NOTHING — there. I don't care what Amy Poehler says. Hair is sort of icky.
What do you mean by "better"? I've heard the cleaner argument, but I number myself among men who like there to be a little odor too, something to relish, one more sense to add to the mix. Odor, like hair, is magnificent in moderation.
Is there more than just the "clean feeling"? And have all the guys been in agreement? Am I vox clamantis in deserto (St. Paul the pube advocate)? At the end of the day, I think collectively that we should be pro-body, not anti. I don't like where this could be leading.
Castration? Amputation?! Hair is dead. It's not a limb, Jack.
No, just more and more sterilization and disconnection. I have a friend who savors giant beavers and hair and smelliness and rolls of fat. Honestly, I think he has more fun in bed than anyone I've ever heard of. He's just an enthusiast and takes the human as she and he is. It's a great strategy. I want my Eden back.
I think that's good, and I'll admit it's a funny irony: at one time, when you got pubic hair, it meant that you were an adult. Now, you get it removed to show that... you're an adult. There's something childish about being hairy, now that Brazilians have achieved vaginal hegemony.
It's a little weird and worrisome. Hair has become the pubic equivalent of baby fat, you know? But I'm glad to hear the sentiment you're expressing because sensuality should make a comeback, and sterility should get lost. But hair can be on one's head and not one one's crotch — it doesn't mean voluptuity is dead.
But come on, it's pretty clear that this all came from porn wanting to show men even more close-up close-ups, and then it tinctured mainstream culture (as their labioplasty and anus whitening seem to be as well), otherwise it might never have been an issue. Doesn't that tick you off, that something as insipid (and mostly one-sided) as porn is shaping your aesthetic preferences and practices?
Yes, it bothers me that it all descends from porn, but doesn't everything we think about sex, in one sense or another, come from there? Remember the movie Blue Lagoon with Brooke Shields? The idea was to go back to Eden. These two kids who grow up alone on an island discover sex in this completely natural way. Of course, even as it's trying to show something natural, the fact that it's cinematic means we're watching a manufactured idea of "natural."
It's denatured! I realize there are degrees of that, but I don't even think women directors of pornography, with their more sensitive sensibility (or whatever they bring to the table), would want bush back. If bush comes back it's going to be because some guy like you fetishizes it and it becomes the rage. Already there are porn movies that are, well, bushy. So whatever we do, men are dictating (dick-tating?) the terms, so we might as well do what we like. And I rather like having no hair.
Listen, I always want women to do what they like (and I try to make myself accordingly likeable). If you like it, you like it. I just want to know why. And what would you do if a guy you adored (and who clearly adored you) said, "Honey, I love the all of you: your perfections, your imperfections, your skin, your smells, your sounds, and I just want them all, as much of you as I can get."
I've found myself complaining that my girlfriends showered too much or felt shy about having sex during their "time of flowers" (as it was called in the Renaissance). To me, those weren't bad things because they were part of her. And, yes, I realize this is still a guy trying to dick-tate, but only out of love.
I kind of think it's nice if guys like sex with blood, but also creepy and ghoulish.
I didn't say I prefer it, just that if it's part of her, it's good. Like in Vargas Llosa's In Praise of the Stepmother, where the guy likes to listen to his wife's tummy rumbles.
You guys should always groom a bit as well, you know?
Oh, god. I already cry myself to sleep because I only have a four-pack (better than the one-pack I had a few months ago). But see what I mean? It's a slope slipping toward complete non-acceptance of our natural states. Granted, having just spent some time in India, I was happy to come back to deodorant, but part of me thought that it was a little sad that I let natural human smells bother me.
And, really, fat is the big one. Can you imagine how much happier we'd all be if we could be Rubenesque? I'm not arguing for bad health, just acceptance of the fact that at age forty, my thirty-one-inch waist isn't so bad.
I guess I'm sort of a nasty perfectionist. I run every day and do Pilates and get facial peels — and, of course, Brazilian waxes. I'm not denying my mortality. I know I'm going to die someday and I'll have spent a good deal of my life on a treadmill to nowhere.
But I guess there is a philosophical sickness that drives us to do things like go to salons for hair removal: it's an insane drive toward achieving a state that we'll never get to, that we'll always be approaching, stuck at some horrible asymptote. But I guess it makes me feel better to try. It makes you feel better to give up.
Not to give up, just to let the asymptote cross the axis every now and then. So would you advise your sister/friend/daughter/whatever to wax, or would you say that if she's cool with her hair, she should leave it? I'd say she should do what she wants if she has a strong opinion. Or, if not, to see what her boyfriend likes. And if he likes Brazilians, call the cops on him. (Just kidding.)
Oh, everyone should do what they want. If you're happy, love will find you, or you will find love. I'm just saying that I want the better seat in first class.
| ABOUT THE DEBATERS: | |
 |
Elizabeth Wurtzel is a lawyer in New York and the author of the books Prozac Nation; Bitch; The Secret of Life; and More, Now, Again. You can follow her at twitter.com/LizzieWurtzel. |
| Jack Harrison is the nom de plume of Hooksexup's very own Jack M. (who needs to get a new professor job and therefore doesn't want these articles to come up when he's Googled). He's still the guy who gave you Naughty Bits and zillions of other Hooksexup articles and fiction. Forgive the subterfuge. | |
Commentarium (93 Comments)
I'd have to vote with Elizabeth on this one.
you know i love you jack but elizabeth's got my vote on this one.
The world needs more men like Jack...sigh.
Luckily Jack sides with my boyfriend here. The basic philosophy is "Just relax a little"
hmmm... i cant help but think Elizabeth didn't really engage in the argument on why she doesn't like hair... Except to tell us it is 'sort of icky', she cant even tell us why.
And does she really think hair removal equates to adulthood??
I find it ironic that every comment Jack makes is accompanied by a little picture of him, and in that picture, HIS FACE IS CLEAN SHAVEN. Here's the point, where we should have hair or not is a cultural construction, a style, that a society endorses or does not. Styles, for facial hair, pubic hair, leg hair, change over time. I think we're in a transition now, regarding female (and male) pubic hair. And whatever the prevailing style, there will always be a few people who decide to buck the trend. From a biological point of view, you could just as well make the point that if a woman likes to be with a man with a clean shaven face, it means she wants the thrill of being with one who could "get her thrown into jail."
Obviously it's down to the individual on what they prefer but I - and most men I know - much prefer nothing at all. There's too much emphasis put on the argument that people do it to look like little girls or that their partners like them looking that way. Basically it just looks and feels smoother, nicer and cleaner! And the best thing of all is the increased sensitivity. With no hair to get in the way everything in that area feels so much better and surely that's the best reason of all for everyone involved? And some men might complain that women should stay natural .... but I bet not all of them would be happy if we all stopped shaving our legs and underams too?!
Exactly my point, ALJ. If people really think that is about looking like little girls, they should object to you shaving your armpits and legs too.
I'm siding with Elizabeth
i don't understand why this argument is always "total brazilian" vs. "totally natural"...I keep myself very (very) trimmed down, but if I try to go totally bald, the hair grows back so quickly that I'm constantly battling ingrown hairs and itchiness. It is for that reason, and not some theoretical argument about looking like a little girl, that I don't do brazilians. But I get the appeal of a trimmed down bush - I prefer that the guys I date trim themselves, as well. So I trim religiously. Is it so wrong to take the middle road on this one? Or is a trim bush as bad as a full one, as far as most guys are concerned?
Another vote for Elizabeth-- the less hairy a woman is below the neckline, the better. (Of course, no mustaches, either.)
I'm with Jack on this issue. I, like many women, spent too much money, time, and pain in a salon being waxed. And then I had an eye-opening moment and asked myself, "Why??" While the smoothness was nice, it only lasted for a very short period of time, and then the sharp stubblies started coming in. Asthetically, I didn't much care for it. I felt less womanly and more little-girlesque. It was kind of a mind fuck everytime I looked at myself or reached my hand down to pleasure myself. And despite the sensibility that the more you do it the less it hurts, I never did become desensitized to having hot wax spread on my most delicate areas and then ripped off. It's a little too medieval-torture-device masochistic for me. I still groom, of course. I shave and trim and make it all pretty, feeling like a beautiful woman with a beautiful patch of silky pubic hair for myself and my partner to enjoy.
When a full brazilian starts growing back the stubble tends to be condom breaker...which does a pretty good job of killing the sexy mood the brazilian was helping to set.
I'm with Jack on this issue. I, like many women, spent too much money, time, and pain in a salon being waxed. And then I had an eye-opening moment and asked myself, "Why??" While the smoothness was nice, it only lasted for a very short period of time, and then the sharp stubblies started coming in. Asthetically, I didn't much care for it. I felt less womanly and more little-girlesque. It was kind of a mind fuck everytime I looked at myself or reached my hand down to pleasure myself. And despite the sensibility that the more you do it the less it hurts, I never did become desensitized to having hot wax spread on my most delicate areas and then ripped off. It's a little too medieval-torture-device masochistic for me. I still groom, of course. I shave and trim and make it all pretty, feeling like a beautiful woman with a beautiful patch of silky pubic hair for myself and my partner to enjoy.
I vote for free choice-ladies/gents discuss and decide for yourselves. Personally, I like to go downtown orally, and I dislike getting 'flossed' by pubic hair.
There's nothing like putting one's mouth on a smooth pussy and letting your tongue slide over the contours. End of story. It looks hot, too. We want to see the pudenda. It has nothing to do with pedophilia. It turns us on like nothing else.
Brazilians no longer offend my feminism, but they do seem like more trouble than they are worth. I doubt that my partner would be impressed enough to make it worth the discomfort much less the cost or the inconvenience of adding another annoying errand to my routine. It reminds me of that line from Threesome, "Sex is like pizza, even when it is bad, it is still pretty good."
If bent over far enough...could I have more smoke blown up my ass, I wonder?
I like a woman to be well groomed at least, but removal of all the hair is too clinical. It makes me feel like I should be EXAMINING a pussy rather than enjoying it.
And yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I keep my own pubes groomed as well.
In Ancient Egypt men and women were shaving everything. Hair, eye brows, arms, legs and pubes. Brazillian is not an invention from porn, it's just a cyclic fad coming back in style. I say, do whatever rocks your boat. Embrace fashion or be ahead of your time and ignore it. =)
If only all men were like our young Jack! I agree with Elizabeth at the end of the day (maybe not FULL brazil), but I love your instincts Jack.
Speak for yourself Elizabeth. I feel more feminine because I'm NOT a slave to beauty- Jack is a real man, and real men should accept real women just the way they are, just like he says.
Brazilians are fine- variety is the spice of life, and sex- but one shouldn't feel beholden to them, nor should it be the standard. Muffs are beautiful in all shapes and sizes, and porn/culture should reflect that.
It does piss me off that porn can shape preferences like this because we all know porn is one-sided- there is barely any representation of what women find sexy in porn. And men should have more options in what turns them on besides disgusting plastic blondness. Ugh.
However a woman wants to style herself it is uo to her. But I agree with a previous comment that pointed out the Elizabeth never gave a reason she thought bare was better.
Oh, and also, if a guy prefers a waxed area due to not liking "flossing" while giving oral sex, then he has to wax too. No double standards, boys...
Personally I don't find "flossing" to be a big deal. You get a hair in there, you fish it out in a sec, big whoop. One of the prices of sexual pleasure- get over it and stop being such wusses. If you can't handle flossing then maybe you're not mature enough to be having sex- something that is filled with all sorts of infectious bodily fluids and other "unpleasant" things...
Pubic hair please, on men and women! I like my furry bush, if others don't, they don't have to get acquainted with it.
Likewise, I love hairy men--yes, even some yummy back hair! Give me the human teddy bear and I am happy. Truly, there is a person to appreciate the beauty of every body type--hairy men, I'm here! Waiting for you just as you are! Don't shave it off!
One thing I wanted to add as someone who lived in Brazil--I believe the women shave in part because of the tropical climate. I didn't meet any Brazilian men who lacked pubic hair. Myself, I kept my snatch furry, and Brasilieros didn't seem to mind a bit.
I believe that the Muslim tradition includes shaving for both men and women--however if you look at the hot desert climate that this practice developed in, it rather makes sense, doesn't it?
After all we don't call it a Scandinavian!
Obviously, whatever the lady wants down there, she should get. But I am icked out (as a woman) by the pedophilia "down there" when I see a Brazillian. I have fur, and I wax around the area, but not the mound--I trim the hair on my pubes and pits with hair scissors. I've also found that I smell less with hair in my pits. Furthermore, I resent feeling that I'm expected to look like a stripper or a porn star--and a super-model on top of all that. If I'm too hairy for my man, and he's worth it, I'll gladly re-groom, but for now I'm comfiest a little more close to what nature gave me. Or most of what was given.
kdk, you *trim* the hair under your armpits? that's disgusting. when's the last time you've been with a man-- or a woman?
Can Wurtzel learn to just speak for herself rather than be "the vocie of her generation"? Because she's not, and she's pretentious.
I think the popularity of getting rid of pubic hair is similar to the reason why a lot of strippers/porn stars have the pale triangles of untanned skin around their breasts - because it reinforces they're seeing something 'dirty' that normally doesn't see the light of day, that's usually covered up. And its very hot that they're the ones getting to see these normally private areas exposed. I'm a female, i don't have a problem with that, it's not a sexism issue to me.
^^^ "they"= 'men' ,sorry!
i, for one, dislike getting a mouthful of hair. just a personal preference.
I'm dating a guy who shaves and I HATE it. It's ALWAYS stubble. When I give a blow-job, I want it to be nice and soft (except for, um, the hard part). Clean-shaven is awesome, but that lasts for two minutes, and then there's stubble. Stubble is WAY worse than hair.
I like waxing because I like skin on skin (and tongue on skin, obviously)...it feels nice. I don't hear many people making this argument though...interesting.
I side with Elizabeth but who really would argue against Jacks point that every woman should do what she wants (its a non argument)?! But Jack IS wrong about one thing. A woman's shaven pussy doesnt look like a little girls. It doesnt any more than a mans bicep looks like a little boys. Just because they are both hair free (essentially) doesnt mean one looks like the other.
The real POINT of a shaven pussy is the real point missing in this debate: men like shaven pussies because they get to SEE pussy in all its beauty and glory. Sure there may be some perverts or pedophiles who want to see a shaven pussy for sick reasons, but that is not why most men do. Most men like to watch movies with action scenes that include bombing, shooting, and killing. That doesnt make them killers. A pussy is a gorgeous/sexy thing, show it off!!! Its the most sexy thing in the world. Its the greatest invention known to mankind. Why hide it in a fur ball of hair??!! To say that porn is driving mens taste, and therefore the so-called "fad" of brazilians is ridiculous. They responded to someones idea of what is sexy, and that someone was probably a man who happened to work in the porn business who preferred seeing shaven pussy in all its glory and figured other men did as well. And what do know, he was right. If men really didnt prefer it, it would be the standard, something else would be. The exception proves the point, there are some porn movies that focus on bush lovers.
Shaving all of it off seems awfully silly—a waste of time and money, and basically futile because it grows back fast. Also total exposure leaves no mystery. Letting the garden become overgrown and unruly isn't good, but I think women look great when they are neatly trimmed.
How many women that I've been with have complained if I haven't shaved when I'm kissing them? Most of them, basically. For me, this is what it comes (!) down to - licking pussy feels SO much better without the hair, which means I'm far more likely to want to do it. A 'landing strip' is lovely too, but the actual lips feel so smooth and slippery when hair-free. Likewise, I keep things neat around my shaft.
I shave all but the typical landing strip up top. But it is purely for my pleasure. It feels extra good when I'm getting oral from my man. The feel of tongue on smooth skin is awesome. He likes it too, but even if he didn't I wouldn't change. It has nothing to do with beauty. I honestly don't like the feel of having hair there, it itches. But my biggest reason is purely hedonistic.
Confused - guys say they like the smoothness of waxed pussy, but the stubble starts coming in just 2 or 3 days later. Does running your tongue over stubble feel better than running it over a bit of silky hair? My pubic hair is straight and very soft - seems more pleasant to me than stubble. That said, I do shave it quite small.
One major point of shaving pussy is to SEE the pussy. Its beautiful and sexy. Why cover it up?
I don't get the comparison to a little girl. I just like to be able to see all the pretty bits without having to part the drapes. And my wife says she's more sensitive without the covering. As far as stubble and trouble goes, she and I both shave clean each day so no stubble problem. Takes about 2 minutes or less in the shower so no trouble.
My legs actually feel a little numb whenever I shave them. I shave them pretty regularly, but once in a while I'll feel the breeze on my 7-days-without-a-razor gams and it feels kinda neat, much more sensitive. The hairs themselves stimulate the Hooksexup endings in my skin. So I don't think I'll ever go bald below the belt.
My $20 pubic trimmer is like, the best investment I've ever made though.
I think that like men with their beards, women should do whatever they want with their pubes, to some men, beards need to be shaven because they simply dont grow nicely. You also have to take in consideration the likes of the partner. Personally, I think the brazillian is way to extreme. It might be nice like a novelty, but not permanently. You end up trying to please something that looks kinda like roadkill.
Why on earth do so many people have such a vested opinion about whether a woman has pubic hair or not? If she wants hair, great...if she doesn't, great. Personally I love a nice clean pussy, but I wouldn't be up in arms if my bed mate didn't trim/shave it all off. Women are beautiful...I can make my suggestions, but ultimately it's up to her. *But if a shaved/waxed pussy is such a deal-breaker that it conjures up the idea of a child (I have no idea why it would, but ok), you're certainly free to find the bush of your dreams, no?
My girlfriend in high school shaved completely soon after we started having sex. I've loved it since. Most women I have been with have shaved or trimmed. I trim and my wife shaves but leaves a little trimmed triangle up top. As long as her beautiful, sexy vulva is shaved, I am happy. However, I wouldn't kick her out of bed if she didn't. I'm not stupid.
Jack, reading this convinced me your'e the perfect, perfect man. mmmmmmm.....
I love Jack. Give me a call or tweet. Totally bare looks like jailbait. JMO, so it's OK if ppl like that aesthetic (personally, I prefer trimmed), but Liz' rationale is . . . um . . . her own opinion.
fwiw I like bare on legs, under arms, but those places nekkid done viscerally strike me as "pre-pube" as nekkid crotch. Has anyone polled Polanski?
This question may speak to my lack of artistic skill, but how does one shave a triangle shape--with a safety razor--in the shower--in the morning--before work? I've tried, but the "strip" becomes an ovalish sort of thing, becomes a hitler-mustache, eventually gets gone. Am I an idiot who doesn't deserve sex?
It's really hard, fwiw, to shave "shapes" to any precision. I am doing something wrong? I've never sucessfully excecuted strips, triangles, etc, which is why it gets bare...
It's really hard, fwiw, to shave "shapes" to any precision. I am doing something wrong? I've never sucessfully excecuted strips, triangles, etc, which is why it gets bare...
Been Brazilian for over 10 years-including during celibate periods with no partner at all. Still, I did it for me. Every month, like clockwork. It feels so good to be clean and smooth, with nothing between me and sensation, me and the cool air. Nice.
It's all about the feel. Where are my Hooksexups? Under a bush? No way, I want the skin to skin contact maximized. Lick your shoulder, then lick your ponytail, and tell me which feels better on the tongue, too.
My boyfriend and I get waxed together. He was a little nervous the first time, but he's one of those "try anything once" kind of guys, and he discovered that he LOVES the way it feels to be all smoothe. Plus, he loves the extra attention his bits get. I mean, I'm not totally anti-hair but he is a furry guy, and licking his balls just isn't that much fun when I have to stop every 30 seconds to de-fur my tongue. When he's smooth? I can do it for hours. Me, I started waxing 20 years ago when I was a stripper and just got used to the way it looks and feels. Never had any complaints so far . . .
Even if waxing does hurt less with time, do I really want to become desensitized around the most sensitive area of my body? In the end it comes down to my decreasing sensitivity vs my partner's getting a kick out of the temporary smoothness. I love my man, but I love me more. This is why I keep things neat by trimming, not waxing.
Ugh -- if I hear one more jackass suggesting that guys who like a waxed/shaved woman are pedophiles, I'm gonna yarf. If you need pubic hair to remind you you're not having sex with a child, maybe other people's grooming habits isn't your biggest problem?
I'm a guy I have a Brazilian, my experience on nudist beaches lends me the opinion they look good if you have a big cock and puppy dog cute otherwise. The amount of hair above your cock should be inversely proportional to the size of your cock.
I found women love clean shaven balls and ass but be prepared for a giggle depending on what you do above your cock.
Scissors first,new razor, ball sack first,sensitive skin shaving foam. If you don't use sensitive skin foam and a new blade on your ball sack, you will be grimacing for that desperate scratch for weeks after. Don't shave the same night as a date, it will look like a just plucked chicken, your skin looses the raw pimply look after a couple of days, sex juice on newly shaven skin can sting.
BEWARE YOUR BALL SACK a good job will make the sensation 24/7 feel great, a bad job will leave you swearing you will never try it again.
Brazilian = bare ???
Brazilian = Thin vertical strip, all else bare.
It makes sense that women *might* strongly associate bareness with physical immaturity, because they actually experienced female hairlessness when they were physically immature. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the same is not true for the average man -- that their primary sexual experiences of shorn, shaved or waxed females probably had an adult context. Or at least an "old enough to grow hair" context, when it comes to sexually active teenagers. So. The pedophilia thing doesn't ring true to me. (I am a woman.)
That's not to say I don't grimace at the Barely Legal images in porn, as someone who is -- at the ripe old age of almost 30-- Obviously Legal, more so everyday, and interested in being perceived as sexy.
But waxing is only one part of the aesthetic. The World's Biggest Merkin isn't going to make a mature looking woman out of anyone on TeenCuties-dot-com. And my Brazilian isn't going to get me carded in the bedroom.
That said, my boyfriend prefers the strip. He does consider at least a minimal amount of hair as a traditional part of the sexual experience.
A past boyfriend appreciated the way the strip serves as a sort of compass rose, or the home keys on the keyboard.
The boyfriend before that objected to hair. And I waxed for him exactly once in all the years we were together. I resented how dogmatic he was in theory. (But no, it wasn't the dealbreaker for either of us.)
I like some variety. And, to be honest, something of the rush. Waxing can be a pretty intense physical experience, like piercing or a tattoo without all the permanence and high visibility. So while I wax now, I do it when *I* feel like it and I wouldn't opt for laser hair removal, which strikes me as ultimately boring.
And yes, the added sensitivity is a factor.
If there's no hair, I personally find giving oral sex more pleasant. And on my side, I have offered to achieve whatever level of gonadal hairlessness that my partner would prefer. The feel of a slippery vaginal lips under ones lips and tongue is more pleasurable than with hair. Which doesn't mean I prefer complete hairlessness; I'm just saying.
It's a preference. If the woman prefers not, so be it.
I have always hated my pubic hair. The sensation of it is unpleasant for me. Think of leg stubble on silk sheets. I keep it shaved, just like armpit hair. Its nothing sexual, and it has nothing to do with being cleaner or smelling nicer. Its just what I like. It makes me comfortable. Someday, I'd like to have it all lasered off. :)
I'm glad to see a few people comment on the increased sensitivity of direct skin on skin as a factor for going full brazilian. It simply makes the sex so much more pleasurable. I'm a guy and was born kind-of hairy but I personally dislike having body hair. I'd get rid of it from my entire body if it were socially acceptable. Instead, I settle for removing hair from the back, armpits, shoulders, chest, legs and the public area. I've had several laser treatments, which has certainly made the new growth lighter, but I still need to go back for wax touch ups in the spa. I wouldn't shave because I'm more prone to ingrown hair when I do that. But yes, having bald everything makes it feel really great whether I'm having sex, walking around naked or fully clothed. Humans are no longer cavemen (or cave people), and don't need hair for warmth or to retain pheromones to attract a mate. The fact that we still have so much body hair shows that we still have a ways to go before we, as humans, have truly evolved from the caveman stage. Besides, as a guy, it's good to think that none of MY public hairs will wind up stuck to the rim of a public urinal, which is a pretty gross sight.
I'm glad to see a few people comment on the increased sensitivity of direct skin on skin as a factor for going full brazilian. It simply makes the sex so much more pleasurable. I'm a guy and was born kind-of hairy but I personally dislike having body hair. I'd get rid of it from my entire body if it were socially acceptable. Instead, I settle for removing hair from the back, armpits, shoulders, chest, legs and the public area. I've had several laser treatments, which has certainly made the new growth lighter, but I still need to go back for wax touch ups in the spa. I wouldn't shave because I'm more prone to ingrown hair when I do that. But yes, having bald everything makes it feel really great whether I'm having sex, walking around naked or fully clothed. Humans are no longer cavemen (or cave people), and don't need hair for warmth or to retain pheromones to attract a mate. The fact that we still have so much body hair shows that we still have a ways to go before we, as humans, have truly evolved from the caveman stage. Besides, as a guy, it's good to think that none of MY public hairs will wind up stuck to the rim of a public urinal, which is a pretty gross sight.
have been thinking of waxing, usually shave/trim but hate stubble...opinions on whether it's worth it? how bad is the pain? is it an awkward experience or what?
@mt - it can be awkward your first time, i suppose, because you are having a complete stranger working intently between your legs for quite some time. haha. and yeah, you're basically getting all your hair ripped out, so its going to sting. but after you're done, its pretty worth it. mine wont even start growing back for like two weeks, but no annoying stubble is priceless.
MEN: please understand, one of the most influential factors in women becoming defensive, upset, and emphatic of the negatives of Brazilian waxes is because of the way they we are made to feel like we are 'unattractive' or 'disgusting' without them. Women are made to feel like they must look and have sex like porn stars. Women are actually having their healthy vaginas sliced away because they feel like they are unacceptable the way they are. The often quoted argument that Brazilians look pre-pubescent is not about calling men who like them pedophiles, it is about that an aspect of natural woman-ness is being classified as unattractive. The real Brazilian debate is about more than 'personal preference'; it is about the things that women are expected to do to just to be 'normal' (translation: 'desirable). No offence guys, but your opinion should mean nothing, and you should appreciate a naked lady any way she is. Please think about the way you want your little sisters and daughters to feel about their bodies when stating your
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"No offence guys, but your opinion should mean nothing, and you should appreciate a naked lady any way she is."
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I have a Brazilian because it feels good, I could also say that a women's opinion should mean nothing but that would make me a misogynist.
I think men have more pressure to conform to women's expectations than the other way round. I also think that women are subject to more pressure to conform from other women than men, read the Hooksexup article on going topless in NY. It was other women who did not approve.
A man will go out with his partner to dinner wearing a t-shirt and jeans if she says nothing. A man will have sex with a woman who is obviously not in the same social standing as he is.
Women compete against each other for men's attention, not against men. If they did then they would wear BBQ spice perfume, dress like a stripper and drive a truck.
o|o , you sound misogynist anyway, than goodness I live in Europe, maybe here is different, but my female friends and acquaintances don't give a damn if I shave /trim or wax or not in my pubic area! :D all men I've been with , if they trimmed or shave it was only coz THEY wanted to.. I still think the pressure is more on women from men, some guys ask that directly ... when I suggested to some chaps to trim up a bit, they sometime answered ''I'm not getting down there with anything sharp!!'' ..... and anyway I'm usually in the midroad as aty in this thread, too sensitive skin, let's trim it up :D
o|o , you sound misogynist anyway, than goodness I live in Europe, maybe here is different, but my female friends and acquaintances don't give a damn if I shave /trim or wax or not in my pubic area! :D all men I've been with , if they trimmed or shave it was only coz THEY wanted to.. I still think the pressure is more on women from men, some guys ask that directly ... when I suggested to some chaps to trim up a bit, they sometime answered ''I'm not getting down there with anything sharp!!'' ..... and anyway I'm usually in the midroad as aty in this thread, too sensitive skin, let's trim it up :D
I agree with Jack - he's a man to treasure. As for the Barbie-blonde-perfection - it's a shame she's shaping taste and behavior.
Not everybody is a skinny blonde with soft hair, what about the brunettes? what about women with thick hair? hair is different for anyone, and the canon of beauty should definitely not be the smart blonde who does Pilates and has a perfect hairless body and oh-so-perfect "audience response"...
Id- Wurtzel is all bottled blonde. Her natural hair is black and thick.
"Elizabeth, you're one of the smartest people I know." Umm, you teach at community college?
This much be a generation thing. No one in their 40's that I know shaves or waxes beyond bikini. I tried it once and hated it and my husband hated it, as well. Not only where their painful bumps and itchiness, but I missed the lovely sensation of having my pubic hair lightly stroked. That always sends wonderful shivers straight through my groin. As for Elizabeth W., thinking that one's body hair is "icky" bespeaks of some serious self-image problems and a slave to commercialism. I know she's had a rough emotional life, but apparently she still has a ways to go in loving, or even liking, herself. And YAY for Jack.
"I was once on a plane to Dublin. AerLingus in its drunken Irishness didn't assign seats"
Regarding the posting guideline "Blatant expressions of bigotry, sexism or hatred may be constitutionally protected on the street corner, but they're not cool here. "
Are we to take it that expressions of bigotry are 'cool' from your interviewees?
"I was once on a plane to Dublin. AerLingus in its drunken Irishness didn't assign seats"
Regarding the posting guideline "Blatant expressions of bigotry, sexism or hatred may be constitutionally protected on the street corner, but they're not cool here. "
Are we to take it that expressions of bigotry are 'cool' from your interviewees?
LIke hair side with Jack..Without hair it looks like a little girls ..Trimmed is very good looks very sexy
Jack sucks.
Can we have Jack cloned? Better yet, can I just have him for myself?
If there's something women should know about men, it's that to us the most exciting thing about sex is diversity. In fact, if a man is not extra arroused when confronted with a "beaver" after a streak of brazillians and vice versa, his homoexual side must be just a bit too strong.
Shave your scrotums.
I'm kinda glad to be gay on this issue. We have twinks and bears, two subsets of our culture. One side shaves their chests and pretty much everything and the others relax in their hairy masculinity. Online if we are trying to meet up this is one of the first things we describe about ourselves. Everybody gets what they want. It really boils down to personal preference, no different from preferring blonde or brunette. I vote for natural, I prefer guys that are comfortable with themselves and their bodies. Nothing worse than a hairy guy shaved from head to toe. I cant take the carpet burn!
I shave because it's easier and more enjoyable when my boyfriend goes down on me. Point blank, nothing to do with adult validation, feeling sexy nor getting better seats on planes, just mere convenience
Bella is, in fact, the entire reason that we could never live up to your image. ,
I find Wurtzel to be sooo annoying in this debate. I love Jack, he's real. But why didn't they discuss the whole idea that women feel pressured by society now to get brazilians, and so it has become less of a choice, and more about feeling that if you don't get it done, people will perceive you as dirty and less than. those damn things are PAINFUL! Can we address that please? I can't think of anything else more painful. It's a horrible sign when women are creating an environment where other women feel so much pressure to undergo so much pain. women oppressing women...it's often worse than men oppressing women.
I liked Wurtzel better when she was drugged up and miserable, not a treadmill-hogging waxed and manicured NYC female clone.
I would like to know more about her "audience reaction".
"she has since twice failed the New York bar exam. Wurtzel has sparked controversy in the legal community by holding herself out as a "lawyer" in interviews, even though she is not licensed to practice law in any jurisdiction."
Could you hook me up with Jack's friend -- the one who relishes pubic hair and fat rolls? Thanks!
Interesting thread!
As for the comparison with the shaving of beards, underarms, and legs- I say there is a difference. Those things can be achieved at home, in privacy, and painlessly. One of the major reasons I don't want to get one is that I don't like the idea of a stranger ripping out hair from my most private of areas with hot wax. The other reason is that I want my sexual encounters to be about something much more meaningful than whether or not my privates resemble that of a porn star's.
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