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51
Jul 28th, 2010

Savage Love by Dan Savage

Ever since hearing you say on your podcast that all men use porn, I have had a burning question: what about us women? If all men get a pass to have this whole other sex life, which is (mostly) external to their partnerships and is sexually satisfying, then I think all women should have a pass as well. Ideally, it would be a pass to enjoy something universally arousing to all women, something that would sexually satisfy us, but it wouldn't be something that turns most men on; perhaps it might even repulse them.

If there were something that met my criteria, I wonder how it would play out in our relationships? Also, I am not sure what it could be, as women are a little bit more complicated. — Desires Erotic Balance

SAVAGE LOVESomething women enjoy but men do not... something erotic... a free pass for just the ladies... something that repulses most men...

Cupcakes?

The now-ubiquitous cupcake isn't explicitly sexual, I realize, but our culture does encourage people — women in particular — to sublimate their erotic desires by stuffing their faces with food. And most of those squat, round, and pink-frosted things look, to my jaded eyes, like so many squat little cocks, DEB, so many growers-not-showers with pink sprinkles, and most of those cupcocks are inhaled by women. So, cupcakes.

But if cupcakes don't do it for you, DEB, then how about a free pass to enjoy, eyedunno, maybe porn?

"We're actually in the middle of a porn-for-women revolution as millions — yes, millions — of women are loudly, even proudly, proclaiming their interest in porn," says Violet Blue, author, blogger, activist, and tireless foe of antiporn boneheads everywhere. If you were reading Blue's blog — www.tinynibbles.com — you would know that one out of every three consumers of internet porn are female, according to a Nielsen NetRatings report released in 2007.

"What's interesting isn't just the growing number of women using porn," says Blue, "it's that they're doing exactly what DEB suggests. It's part of their own private sex lives that are mostly external to their relationships; they're using porn as reliably as their favorite vibrators."

What women have lacked up to now is the same "free pass" men enjoy.

"Guys are encouraged to have this other sex life with porn," says Blue, "that's seen as normal and healthy. But despite the numbers, our culture is having a hard time admitting that women like porn. Antiporn feminists ignore the female viewer. The only people, besides Oprah, acknowledging the female viewer are the antiporn Christians who see it (and female masturbation) as a disease they can cure!"

Blue directs female porn consumers to Our Porn, Ourselves (www.ourpornourselves.org).

"On OPO, women are talking about liking all kinds of porn, even stuff that goes too far for some guys," says Blue. "Women are making each other feel comfortable about their newfound access to porn, openly having their desire to watch sex (and jack off to it) validated the same way that guys do."

I am a man who has been in an open marriage for ten years. My wife dates men on her own, and I get to enjoy the occasional threesome with her and one of her partners. (We had no luck dating women or couples.) The problem is, she is clearly more interested in "her" dates than in "ours," probably because the hotter guys are more interested in her alone than in us together. My wife is GGG, but it is hard for her to persuasively feign interest in the guys who are interested in us both. I can tell she would much rather be out on one of her dates. And it is frankly depressing to watch her go through the motions with one of "ours."

Does being GGG require her to be a good actress, or does it require me to pretend that I believe her when she claims she enjoys the three-ways we have together? — Is This A Silly Problem?

SAVAGE LOVEThis isn't a silly problem, ITASP, not at all.

Open relationships only work — closed relationships only work — when they make both people happy. You're not happy, ITASP, which means your open relationship isn't working.

Time to renegotiate terms.

Tell the wife to stop fucking other people for a while. (And, yes, you should have the authority to do that — both partners in an open relationship should be able to call a time-out.) If your wife balks, concede that there are lots of hot guys out there who want to fuck her and that you're asking her to pass up on some opportunities for hot sex. Then remind her that you're the guy she married, that you're the guy she's hoping will stick around once hot guys aren't lining up to get in her pants anymore, and that there will still be hot guys out there who want to fuck a year from now.

While you're not fucking other people, fuck each other. Fuck a lot. Work to reestablish your sexual connection.

Then when you're ready to start fucking other people again — and you're not ready until you're both ready — your wife should agree that over the next year she will fuck only guys who are interested in fucking you both. That's going to mean passing up on some hot guys who are only into her, of course, but that's a sacrifice she should be willing to make in order to save her marriage. It also means that she'll have to work harder to find hot guys who are into you both — do whatever you can to help — but she's likelier to make that extra effort if it's the only way she gets to fuck a hot guy who isn't her husband.

Hopefully by the time your three-way-or-the-highway year is up, ITASP, you'll have a few regular thirds on deck — hot guys who are into you both, guys your wife won't have to pretend with — and then she can do some solo adventuring without shredding your self-esteem in the process.

What is your favorite kink? What fucked-up thing does Dan Savage get up to? — Nosy Reader

SAVAGE LOVEMy kinks aren't interesting, NR, and my marriage vows specifically forbid me from disclosing that sort of information.

Here's something interesting: "A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman who had believed him to be a fellow Jew," the Guardian reported last week. After the dude "introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship," the two "had consensual sex in a nearby building." The woman went to the cops to report that she had been raped only after she learned that the man wasn't Jewish.

Now I don't think there's anything wrong with one-night stands, or with being a slut, or with fucking the shit out of a guy you've only just met (that's how I met my husband), but I gotta say: when we have consensual sex with strangers — when we go home or to "a nearby building" with someone we've only just met — we're not just taking a chance on a person we know very little about. We're taking a chance on our own bullshit detectors. And no one's bullshit detectors are 100 percent accurate. So someone who can't bear the thought of accidentally fucking an Arab or a Republican or a married man or a guy who makes less than $250,000 a year really has no business fucking strangers. That person owes it to himself/herself to get to know people a bit better before visiting any nearby buildings with them.

Not because it's okay to lie. But because people do lie.

Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

FIND MORE
Savage Love: My boyfriend's favorite YouTube videos are freaking me out.
Miss Information: Why does my boyfriend have nude photos of his ex in his email?
Sex Advice From Central Park Tanners

Comments ( 51 )

Interesting questions/advice this week. Cant wait to read the updates
Duchess commented on Jul 28 10 at 2:24 am
I am a woman who likes porn. I don't watch it as much as men do. But, I kinda resent the idea that its for men only. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus mentality is so obnoxious. I will do what I damn well please, that includes cupcakes AND porn.
I Am Woman commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:25 am
"I will do what I damn well please, that includes cupcakes AND porn." — put the two together! Cupcakes and porn! How about a porno called "Baker's Dozen" in which the head chef (pun intended) forces 13 men to pleasure her. While eating cupcakes.
Moops commented on Jul 28 10 at 7:21 am
I'm a man who watches porn. No one ever "gave me a pass." I do it because I want to, and fuck anyone who disagrees. DEB's problem reeks on inner insecurity in herself because she's looking for approval from society so that she can justify to herself that what she likes is ok. Who cares? I mean really, who the fuck cares what society thinks about your own sexual interests? Who needs ANY kind of pass to get off the way they want to get off using whatever kind of aids suits them? If getting my prostate tickled by a crucifix while huffing paint (non-metallic, I'm not a pervert) and watching the History Channel gets me off, then why would I seek some sort of free pass from anybody?
hhhyfnbb commented on Jul 28 10 at 7:44 am
I'd watch the hell out of that porn, moops!
claire commented on Jul 28 10 at 7:58 am
How about a porno of men watching women watching porn.
Moops commented on Jul 28 10 at 11:35 am
How about a porno of men watching women watching men watching porn watching women eat cupcakes?
Me commented on Jul 28 10 at 11:37 am
Considering the numbers of letters that Dan gets from men who have to hide their porn from their wives/girlfriends, or letters from women complaining about their man's porn, it doesn't seem to me that men get a pass at all.
Grady LaLa commented on Jul 28 10 at 11:38 am
What hhhyfnbb said.
eso commented on Jul 28 10 at 11:54 am
Porn usually involves a woman doing things that she wouldn't do otherwise were she not under some sort of duress (psychological, or because she needs to get money so she can eat). As a woman, when I watch straight porn I usually have to stop really quickly because I'm watching rape. Yes, it looks like rape, how can she possibly enjoy deep-throating on that cock and then being essentially drilled all the while her clit being essentially non-existent to the assholes on the set (except maybe for them to punch it at the end or something). So maybe this is what the first writer meant, when she said socially-sanctioned porn for women, you know something that doesn't make a woman feel like she's watching a fellow woman being raped. And if this gets you off, you women rape-watchers, not to rain on your parades, but maybe a little radical feminist reading would be good for your mental health. As for the men who enjoying watching women getting raped, well, surprise surprise. As for your third question, Rape by Deceit is a great concept, but why doesn't it surprise me that a misogynist like you would not think so.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 11:56 am
I'm wondering if ITASP has any "dates" of his own?
Hooksexupsystem commented on Jul 28 10 at 12:10 pm
Rape by deceit is not about bringing the one who is raped on trial, it's about the rapist. It's taking this a step further-- when a woman gets drunk and passes out on the floor and then a dude rapes her because she's essentially hanging out on the floor, the legal argument is not that the dumb slut should have known better not to drink and pass out because boys will be boys, but that the rapist did something wrong. Enough victim-blaming, please!!!
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 12:13 pm
Maybe not all men "get a free pass" with the porn watching, but apparently we're all supposed to let them, whether or not we're comfortable with it, because if we don't then we're horrible shrews holding our husband's/boyfriend's balls in a vice.
jaydee commented on Jul 28 10 at 2:59 pm
A passed-out women getting raped is entirely different from a woman who has consensual sex and then regrets it. To call concealing one's ethnicity "rape" is an insult to everyone who has been raped. As for "victim blaming", it's obvious to any rational person that the Palestinian man is the victim in that situation — a victim of racism and hysteria.
Moops commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:21 pm
@AT, porn is not the only option for most porn actresses. And just because the sex is often ugly doesn't mean it's rape. As for rape by deceit, By your logic, women who wear make-up or have breast implants are all rapists.
notfromaroundhere commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:23 pm
To assume that the women in porn are being raped because "they wouldn't normally do that" is ridiculous, unless you are, perhaps, a time-traveler from the past who believes that women don't enjoy sex and should just endure it in order to bear children.
Moops commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:36 pm
Moops, some studio needs to get you under contract, pronto.
thinkywritey commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:51 pm
To @AT--Porn for women is BORING. I hate being patronized by directors who believe that women don't get off unless a storyline is established and soft music is playing. Not to mention many contemporary pornographic actresses (Belladonna, Sasha Gray) are just as sexually aggressive and dominant as male ones. Transgression is hot. A little radical feminism wouldn't hurt you, either.
kat commented on Jul 28 10 at 3:51 pm
Ugh, I just wish people would stop using that language at all. "Soft-focus porn is porn for WOMEN! Hardcore gangbangs is porn for MEN!" Aren't we well past the point where we can recognize that gangbang porn is for people who like gangbang porn and story-heavy porn is porn for people who like David Mamet?
thinkywritey commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:02 pm
No, women's shouldn't just endure sex with men for the reproduction of the species, duh, but really what is the intrinsic sexual value, for the woman, of a double anal? Of a cum-shot in her eye? Her $600 (more or, probably, less) one-time fee doesn't cut it. For anyone who for a moment doubts the brutality of porn-making for the women "actresses" please read "How to Make Love Like a Pornstar" by ms. Jenna Jameson. The sub-title is "A Cautionary Tale," but people rarely see that apparently. And yes, what you see is rape, because it's non-consensual, in the sense that were it consensual they wouldn't have to get paid (and high and drunk) to do it. Get it? Maybe too radical for the ones who like to watch this crap. p.s. can't wait for Sasha Gray's autobiograhy- How I ended up a cumdumpster, A cautionary tale.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:25 pm
hey, Moops, how you conveniently forget that the "manvictim" also lied about his marital status and plans for the future. But then again, according to your logic, it shouldn't be the man's responsibility to watch where he puts his penis, it should be the woman's.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:27 pm
As a woman, I like filthy, violent porn. I also like filthy, violent sex, so unless I (and many of my friends in the BDSM world) are unlike any other women on the planet (seems unlikely), it is not "unfeminine" to enjoy violent sex, and portrayals thereof. As a former sex worker (not a porn actress, but I have certainly heard from radical feminists that taking my clothes off onstage is also raping them in some slightly incalculable way), sure, there were days when I didn't feel like wearing high heels, or would rather lie on the couch watching the Sci Fi channel than go to work, or when customers annoyed me . . . oh, kinda like ALMOST ANY JOB ON THE FREAKIN' PLANET. If someone would pay me handsomely to watch Dr. Who, eat nachos, and never get out of my pyjamas, I would totally take that job. Not because I have been raped repeatedly by capitalism, but because it would be an awesome job. I went to UC Berkeley. I did feminist studies. I also went to NYU and studied with the late, greatly missed Ellen Willis whose version of radical feminism (which involved porn and rock'n'roll deep-throating, and many of the other good things in life) I found much more soul-satisfying than the Catherine McKinnon version in which all sex is violence against women. Even sex between two consenting men. I rad that over 20 years ago as a dewy-eyed (porn-loving) undergrad, and I still can't quite wrap my head around it.
mpb commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:31 pm
rock'n'roll *and* deep-throating, though my typos certainly brings up some intriguing mental images . . .
mpb commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:32 pm
Women who wear make-up live in the patriarchy, as do women who get breast-implants. The fun part for the latter ones is that they are also at higher risk for suicide than the average female living in the patriarchy. Instead of a suicide-watch though, we should put them on a rape-watch, because they rape unsuspecting men with 'em siliconed boobs apparently.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:33 pm
And, therefore, mpb, slavery is freedom. Anyway, whatever helps you get through the day, which is obviously not reading "incomprehensible" giant brain genius Catharine MacKinnon.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:37 pm
I dunno, mpb, I think I prefer "rock'n'roll deep-throating" without the conjunction. So much headbanging...
thinkywritey commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:38 pm
I like how DEB makes the debate all about why she can't have this or that. Look, if you want something, go out and get it, or make it, or hire someone to make it for you. Men don't get universal permission from their partners, many of them are forbidden to do it, and they do it anyway, and lie about it, or resent their partners for being forbidden. And poor @at, you need to seek therapy for that anger issue and man-hate. Many porn performers do it for their own reasons, and whether you approve of those reasons or think they're valid doesn't matter. The women who make porn are grown up people, not objects of your victim fantasy who need your strident heroics.
Sticky commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:38 pm
"Man-hater" and "sex-hater," come on, can't you do better than this?
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:43 pm
Try some better trolling, @AT.
thinkywritey commented on Jul 28 10 at 4:47 pm
A lot of people would never go to work every day if they didn't need the money for food, rent, etc. Are they being raped daily?
50Q commented on Jul 28 10 at 5:20 pm
A lot of people would never go to work every day if they didn't need the money for food, rent, etc. Are they being raped daily?
50Q commented on Jul 28 10 at 5:21 pm
hey, didn't mean to troll, all i'm saying is that we should be more critical of what we see, especially because we live in a visual culture. As for wanting to improve the work conditions of the porn workers, it's like every other exploitative industry- human rights for all. Porn just happens to be particularly brutal.
@AT commented on Jul 28 10 at 5:46 pm
@AT Do you actually watch much porn? I find often the people who are porn's most outspoken critics are also the people who have seen very little of it. I'm pretty sure working conditions at my windowless office, and my non-pornographic nude modeling jobs are significantly less cushy and compensating than those of a porn actress. Any woman who sees dirty sex in pornography and asks "what's in it for her"...has something to learn. I would also love to read Sasha Gray's autobiography--because ending up and choosing to be are very different things, and your implication that she is somehow devalued ("a cumdumpster"? really? Isn't that a frat-boy term?) because of her career choice is pretty anti-feminist.
kat commented on Jul 28 10 at 6:26 pm
A lot of women who might not be too much into ~visual porn DO read erotic stories. I know tons of women who are married or in relationships who totally get off on VERY graphic homoerotic fanfiction and I bet they don't share that with their significant others :D
MsWilde commented on Jul 28 10 at 6:53 pm
If I were going to become a pornstar, it'd be to play the lead in "Baker's Dozen"...mmm.......
pastrychef commented on Jul 28 10 at 7:03 pm
As someone who was raped...That dumb broad is just working a system to absolve her of her own culpability in the situation. Her poor decision to screw a guy she didn't know well enough is just that, a poor decision. She should have just gave him a BJ first to see if he was circumcised. That would have been a red flag. How many arabs are circumcised after all? She sounds like a silly girl who wanted a do over and to punish a guy for lying to her...just like DS said. Get over it idiot...we've all been lied to and lived to regret it. But rape...that wasn't rape.
jaw commented on Jul 28 10 at 8:49 pm
@jaw: Circumcision is a rite of Islam as well as Judaism--so lots of Arabs are circumcised (just not usually by the 8th day of life). It's also possible that some of the many Palestinian Christians are also circumcised--so your suggested test would be completely inconclusive, assuming he was indeed cut.
pastrychef commented on Jul 28 10 at 9:14 pm
Moops: I think I love you. I'd like to be inside your brain/bedroom, please. @AT: so, how's that ol' second wave feminism treating you? Hate to say it, but for as much hating on the patriarchy as you're doing, you're so far to (metaphorical, nonpolitical) left that you're wrapped around to the right. You can't have it that women who wear makeup and have breast implants are asking to be raped by participating in the patriarchy, but also maintain that it's unjust to that women are taken advantage of when they're drunk. I'm just going to go clothe my 34G breasts in a well-fitting top and wear some mascara while I kick ass and take names in a male-dominated field, thanks, and then go watch some porn.
claire commented on Jul 28 10 at 10:14 pm
Dan's right- an open relationship isn't working unless both people are happy. I have friends in an open marriage that's in tatters- he's terribly jealous of her other lovers, but refuses to speak up because he "doesn't tell anyone what to do." There's got to be a happy medium in there.
Cam commented on Jul 29 10 at 9:46 am
Didn't Desires just describe Romance Novels?
withheld commented on Jul 29 10 at 12:56 pm
@AT Sure, there are some porn actresses perhaps who are exploited, somewhere. And that's wrong. But more and more, women are taking back the porn industry. Porn stars are getting better treatment. It's becoming equalized. And as for saying that women cannot possibly enjoy getting a facial or double penetration, how the hell do you know? Just because you don't doesn't mean others won't. Lots of women love the feeling of double penetration. And I know women who think it's hot when their partner cums on them. And they are not necessarily living 'in the patriarchy' as you put it. Sexual tastes and kinks come in all sorts of lovely shapes and sizes, and as long as those who are acting them out are two (or more) consenting adults, there is nothing wrong with that. And there is nothing wrong with porn, with material that arouses. Unless you think there is something wrong with sex itself, in which case you might want to come out of the victorian era a bit.
Kim commented on Jul 29 10 at 1:01 pm
I think men should make porn for women
crystl commented on Jul 29 10 at 2:05 pm
"Cum dumpster"-- I was just using the empowerful name these porn producers use when they refer to these free, sexually-liberated cum dumpsters. Oh I meant women as in human beings. Wait, what, you didn't think it was empowerfulizing or liberating or even hot or nice to call someone a cumdumpser?! Who would have thought. Tiny tidbit of info before I take off into my pre-Victorian den- Dan Savage is employed by the Village Voice, who makes shitloads of money from the porn industry (analyse their ads sometimes). Of course he will be pro-porn. It does seem like it's really quite difficult for these porn producers to attract the female half of the audience though, and they've been trying for years. I guess lobbying Dan Savage is an avenue they have not used so far. p.s. read: https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nhm/1629950745.html
@AT commented on Jul 29 10 at 4:05 pm
Some of the biggest producers now ARE women. Jenna Jameson and Jill Kelly are prime examples.
Ak907 commented on Jul 29 10 at 7:48 pm
@AK907-- Also, Nina Hartley, Annie Sprinkle, Candida Royale, Tristan Taormino. Sure there's more, those are just the ones that leap to mind. And some of their porn is *hot*--Tristan in particular is all about the anal from a hot woman-centric standpoint. @AT. Actually, Dan is an exec editor at the Stranger in Seattle, and syndicated by the Voice and many other papers, just to be clear. Have you spent a lot of time on the Stranger's site, and particularly on their blog, SLOG? It's really quite a major force for social justice (and silly puns, of course.) I don't think I've ever seen porn advertised on the site. Lots of indie bands and hip eateries though, which is kind of like porn for a certain audience, I guess. I don't think a bunch of us porn-loving lefty liberals are going to change your mind. I'm glad you're happy and all, and certainly don't feel I need to convert you to someone who wants to come over to my place, eat nachos, try on sparkly undies and watch some double anal porn. We all like what we like. I like humiliation play and really dirty pron. You don't. Ain't human diversity grand? But, in closing, on Catherine McKinnon, I would actually like your thoughts on the snippet I mentioned. Of course her writing in general is not incomprehensible--a bit dry and academic, but not dreadful if you're into that sort of thing and can avoid the horrid mental images of her and Jeffrey Masson frolicking naked on their Ralph Lauren sheets). The "incomprehensible" specifically refers to a comment from her (I'm sorry, I can't give a citation, it was in a feminist studies book long gone from my collection) that, essentially, all penetrative sex constitutes violence against women. Even if the sex is between two men, because one is still being placed in a penetrated role, and thus perpetuating violence against women, even though no women are present. This is what I referred to as "incomprehensible" to my tiny little brain. Thanks ever so, and have a lovely day.
mpb commented on Jul 29 10 at 8:26 pm
This is almost such a wonderful interplay that I'd like to see it published...with the Internet snarkiness left out. We're all in this together, folks; let's assume we're all human.. I, as a male human being, watch and enjoy porn. But I like romance; I want some mystery. I prefer a playful nude to someone sticking her gaping open vagina in my face. (Please; it's my life. Don't carry on if that's how I feel and don't have any other language to say it.) My ideal porn would be a normal erotic movie with the volume turned up, or just one of those Showtime softcore things made hardcore. Yeah; I'm a vanilla wimp. So be it. Lesbian movies with one experienced woman seducing another are the sexiest things I know, because the interplay of innocence and eroticism is so wonderful. And there are hetero movies like that too, only too rare. If it floats your boat, let it float. If it's consensual and well paid, who am I to shut it down? But I find it hard to believe that the majority of porn movies made today--with their improbable men and women doing and acting in improbable and unpleasant ways--are the best we can do to make the erotic more fun. I personally know how this goes in and that goes out; I don't need to see it in close-up for 20 minutes. PS: If you see a production of Dan's THE KID, be sure and see it. Seriously good stuff.
AlanK commented on Jul 29 10 at 9:55 pm
So, AT, what was your answer to the porn-watching question from Kat?
yes commented on Jul 29 10 at 10:23 pm
I can't get the notion of eating nachos, trying on sparkly undies and watching double-anal porn with mpb out of my head. To hell with the rest of it; let's all do THAT this weekend!
thinkywritey commented on Jul 30 10 at 9:36 am
@AT You and mpb both are make compelling points in a debate that i i wish could go on in a more formal way. I wish Hooksexup would ask you two to discuss the porn debate in an article. My girlfriend feels basically the same way about porn as AT, but without the feminist reading to articulate it so clearly. Porn in the internet age is clearly getting mainstreaming some "extreme" degradation rituals in a way that repulses me personally even as it titillates. But can't you find a more effective way to name and articulate the experience of porn stars without using such a fuzzy concept of rape and consent. Someone can "consent" to be subjected to something unpleasant and degrading. If you paid me $1000 to drink someones urine, I still "consented" to it. It doesn't mean the world of porn and being paid to be degraded isn't disturbing. It sure is SOMETHING. but that doesn't mean it has to be rape. Maybe more akin to torture, but still very easy to distinguish from rape as sexual-act-without-articulated-permission-consent Also saying that you wouldn't have to paid for something if you actually liked doing it, doesn't make much sense at all. You ask what the intrinsic value of double penetration is to a woman. What is the value of it at all? to men? It is an act of symbolic power that stimulates the imagination of many men. any men are also aroused by masochistic feelings. (being treated aggressively, spit on etc.,) Why is it impossible to posit that a woman can find enacting either role in a power-themed sex act arousing as well? Lots of unresolved/guilt-ridden/disowned attitudes and feelings find expression as potent sexual stimulants. Getting off on an idea, or the ritual performance of an idea does not equate to endorsing the idea in a non-sexual context. @AT i am curious if you have any thoughts?
GeoffInBaltimore commented on Jul 30 10 at 4:02 pm
Sorry for the run-on sentence and lack of editing in the previous post. I meant to add that actors artists musicians and MANY people demand LOTS of money because they CAN, to do something that they enjoy. So i do doubt that porn stars women are getting off on all the aggro stuff, the fact that they are being paid doesn't really seem to me to nullify CONSENT.
GeoffInBaltimore commented on Jul 30 10 at 4:05 pm

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