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Miss Information

My boyfriend's best friend is coming between us. Am I allowed to kill her?

By Cait Robinson

Have a question? Email . Letters may be edited for length, content, and clarity.

Dear Miss Information,

I'm a single guy in his early thirties. My best friend is a very attractive married woman. We've been "BFF"s for eleven years, and long ago worked through the awkward "unrequited love" stage. She knows I'm still sexually attracted to her, and I know this is not a mutual attraction. Despite this, we remain thick as thieves. 

She and her husband have recently started exploring mutually-agreed-upon extramarital sexual encounters. In the past, she's talked openly with me about her sex life with her husband, and it never made me uncomfortable. In fact, I find it gratifying that we can have those conversations. But this extramarital talk is hurting me and making me very jealous. 

I want to bring this up to her, but I feel incredibly stupid being jealous of these other men when I'm not jealous of her husband. These guys don't mean anything to her or to her husband, so why do they mean anything to me? What the hell is going on in my brain and do I have any right to bring my feelings into the conversation?

— BFF WTF?

Dear BFF WTF?

What is going on in your brain is a gumbo of small fixations, sugar cravings, and theme songs from '80s cartoons. (That's entirely a projection of my own mental state, but I assume it's universal.) While I'm continuing on my wild speculation tour, I will guess that these guys bother you precisely because they don't mean anything to her or her husband. Her husband may not be a threat to you because you've met him, you know them as a couple, and you're used to his presence in her life. These other guys, though, are faceless shadows, and it's much easier to resent faceless shadows.

You may also feel envious that she is sleeping with these dudes while you, her close friend, remain fully clothed and sitting on a bar stool. "She's with him because she loves him" is easier to swallow than "She's hooking up with the bro with the hair gel, but not me." For what it's worth, you're not crazy; jealousies are unpredictable, and the brain is a strange place.

You do have a right to bring your feelings up, but you don't have a right to expect her to change her behavior. If this arrangement is working for her and her husband, your input is unlikely to derail that. The best thing you can do, without making it too awkward, is to respectfully ask that she doesn't discuss these flings with you. Keep it light: "Hey, so it's kind of weird to hear about these hook-ups you're having, and I'm not sure why. Is it cool if we don't discuss them? Can I have your fries?" She should respect that, especially given your history of sexual tension. You can't control what she does in her spare time, but you can control how much of it gets brought into your relationship.

 

Dear Miss Information,

My boyfriend and I have been together for two years. It's been great, except for one thing: his female best friend. From the get-go, we've never gotten along, even though we've tried. They hang out a lot, and because she and I are not on friendly terms, when the three of us hang out, it's rather awkward. The two of them talk and talk, and I'm sitting there wondering why I even bothered joining them.

She is married, and has a house. Her husband never really hangs out with them, so they go off and mostly just drink. It's almost as if she puts her marriage to the side to relive her high-school/college partying days, and I find that unacceptable. I know there is nothing going on between them, but there's a lot I wish could change.

My boyfriend and I have recently decided we're moving in together, and we're currently discussing the possibility of marriage. I love him with all my heart, but this problem doesn't seem like it's going to go away or fix itself, and it's giving me a huge headache.

— Fed Up

Dear Fed Up,

You've probably been to a party where you don't know anyone. The person who invited you is busy working the room, so you roll up your sleeves and push yourself into social-skills hyperdrive. Four hours later, you've broken three glasses, had twelve boring conversations, and have eaten the hell out of the hors d'oeuvre plate. When you wake up the next day, you make a mental note: "___ is a great friend, but she makes a shitty host."

Your boyfriend is being a shitty host. He's not being considerate enough to bridge the gap between his old friend and you. You don't need to be spoon-fed, but it is nice to have someone make an effort to bring you into the conversation. He may not be aware that he's leaving you out, but if tension exists between you and this girl while the three of you are hanging out, he can and should help alleviate it. 

On another note, you say you and his friend never got along, but why? It could be a garden-variety personality clash — in which case, fine. You don't have to like everybody. But it could also be fueled by jealousy. If you are each holding his hand and glaring at each other over your beers, take note: that is mean-girl politics, and it sucks. If you see even a trace of this, pull yourself out of it. Girls don't have to compete with each other for male affection; honestly, it demeans everybody involved.

An unspoken-tension situation like this requires some concessions from everybody. First, talk to your boyfriend, and tell him how alienated you feel when the three of you are out. He should make adjustments for whomever he is with, to make sure everyone feels included. If you want to go for Advanced Placement Being-the-Bigger-Person, invite his friend to do something, just the two of you. You may never become close, but spending time together may give you a new appreciation for one another, or at least soften the grudges. You may also decide that the stress isn't worth it, and hang out with your friends while he's drinking with his. 

This is more an issue of communication with your boyfriend than it is an issue with the girl. It may be important to him that he has this direct line to his high-school days, and he's entitled to that. But you can both figure out a way to keep his past from interfering with your future.

Commentarium (44 Comments)

Aug 27 11 - 12:22am
ss

Really good advice this week.

Aug 27 11 - 2:53am
Ryan

She gives really good advice EVERY week. I liked the previous miss information and all, but Cait has this shit in the fucking bag.

Aug 27 11 - 3:59pm
Kristina

+1 To that comment.

Aug 27 11 - 11:17pm
twj

agree. Cait, you rock. Do you have a boyfriend? ;)

Aug 27 11 - 12:45am
Dee

Maybe it's the box o' wine talking but Cait Robinson, if you ever come to Vancouver (CANADA!), you can sit on my couch and give me advice anytime. I am a good host!

But yes, excellent advice.

Aug 28 11 - 7:41pm
CaitRobinson

@Dee that sounds excellent. Can you get me Canadian citizenship and/or access to the cast of "Degrassi"? We can trade.

Aug 30 11 - 10:37am
9pumpchai

dee, i live in Vancouver,(WASHINGTON!) and i'm curious why you clarify that your Vancouver is located in CANADA..your Vancouver is world reknown for its beauty, gardens, friendly polite people, and amazing buds(yay!! thanks!!).. whilst my own quaint & corrupt Vancouver is. not. known..um...at. all. when i tell people i'm from Vancouver, i ALWAYS have to say "no, there's one in Washington (STATE!)" only 12 mins from Portland (OREGON!). so please, tell me, i must know, why did you feel the need to clarify your Vancouver??? i'm picturing you saying "no no..you know.. the one in CANADA?"

Aug 30 11 - 10:50am
9pumpchai

oh and sorry my resonse was so off topic. go cait!!! <3 yer advice!!

Aug 27 11 - 1:11am
ibg

Cait, you have a book in your future.

Aug 28 11 - 7:40pm
CaitRobinson

@ibg A book! I'm flattered. How do you feel about a pile of cocktail napkins stapled together?

Aug 27 11 - 2:16am
Realpolitik

OMFG. This week we have *two* letters that revolve around people who have "friends" of the opposite sex. This is in addition to the (at least) three other such letters that have appeared over the summer. Cait, if this is an accurate representation of the letters that you're receiving, then this opposite-sex friend thing is causing a whole hell of a lot of grief.

And it should. Know why? I'm saying it again: Men and women CANNOT be friends! One party or the other (or both) is always in love with and/or wants to fuck the other party. "Opposite-sex friend" is a lie.

LW #1 is in the horrible position of being the undesired one and has to listen as his married "friend" talks about fucking other guys with her husband. Of course he's jealous. Using advanced Buddhist techniques, he may have somehow reconciled himself to the fact that she has a husband who's boning her, but now these other schleps are getting her too, while she tells him about it like he's her good gay pal? Dude, you need to end the friendship, break all communication. All of your friends should have penises.

LW #2 is right to be upset and probably jealous over her boyfriend's bestie. "I know there is nothing going on between them." Oh really? How do you *know* this? And even if there really isn't anything physical happening, one (or both) of them are physically/romantically attracted to the other and would like something to happen. All of your boyfriend's friends should have penises.

Aug 27 11 - 2:41am
Monkey

Who are you and what century do you live in? You are basically saying that you should never have a friend of the opposite sex that you are attracted to, or deal with that fact. Sometimes people you want to fuck don't want to fuck you. Sometimes it goes the other way. That doesn't make them unworthy as friends. It makes you grow past the idea that the opposite sex is only for that. I'm sorry you think that way- you must be very lonely.

Aug 27 11 - 8:15am
RBM

No, fuck that. @Realpolitik is on point! I would add that the female of LW#1's affection is a selfish bitch! She knows how he feels about her but still shares that shit with him. I'm certain that she gets a sick pleasure out of knowing that telling him this stuff will only make him pine for her more. And LW#2 needs to get some self-esteem and a backbone. Why would a man who is madly in love with her, taking the plunge into cohabitation, and talking marriage with her, continue a friendship with a woman who is, at best, passive-aggressive toward the woman he's so madly in love with, or at worst, openly hostile? The answer? He's a selfish asshole who needs to have his ego stroked by the idea that he's the object in a tug-of-war between two women. The "opposite-sex-friendships" in both of these letters are inappropriate, which is precisely why the letter-writers are feeling something funny in their tummies. @Realpolitik is absolutely right, "opposite-sex-friendship" IS A LIE!!!!

Aug 27 11 - 9:51am
Monkey

Life is inappropriate. my point is that relationships that predate your relationship to the person tend to pre-exist. It's not fair, but you have to work it out somehow. The first guy is a wuss- a simple "Please don't share that with me, you know it bothers me" would alleviate the problem. Or make her lay her cards on the table. The second one is a bit more problematic- he may be playing it for that, but I doubt it. He's caught between two people he cares about and doesn't know how to deal. How would you handle the situation, apart from ascribing unkind and self serving motives to all involved?

Aug 27 11 - 9:55am
bk

I don't believe that opposite sex friendship is a "lie", but there is definitely an unhealthy component to both of these relationships. It's pretty self-centered - and slightly sadistic - for LW #1's friend to talk about her extramarital sexcapades when she knows that he wants her. I'm not a highly jealous type, but this would just wring my guts. And if LW #2's boyfriend doesn't step up and make more of an effort to include his girlfriend in the conversation when the 3 of them are together, that relationship's gonna go boom too. Which relationship is he more committed to?

Aug 27 11 - 3:20pm
Russo

So these are blunt criticisms but they'rd ultimately sound. It's difficult to generalise. Whether any of these opp sex besties represent a real threat or not is impossible for us to tell. All things considered, life does seem to be a bit simpler dialing back the external girl-boy friendships when in a serious relationship. This can be difficult if you have a preference and affinity for the company of the opposite sex but still manageable through socially neutral environments like work, sport etc. Best to wean yourself off the flatter-fests where conspiratorial chat and pillowish talk take root.

Aug 27 11 - 3:28pm
nn

I'm a lady and I've been friends with men I wanted who didn't want me, and vice versa. Of course there's a little twinge of pain every now and then, but it's not constant, and sometimes it disappears over time altogether. We remain friends because overall the friendship seems worth it.

We're all freaking adults, and we should be able to A) have good enough self-control to know that we'll only cheat if we want to and B) realize that all consummated romantic relationships are destined to end eventually. Why must an official romantic relationship take precedence over everything else? If I was dating a guy who told me I couldn't hang out with my guy friends anymore, who I'd known far longer than him, I'd tell him to go f*ck himself.

Aug 27 11 - 4:04pm
well

Right on nn. I have several friends, both male and female, that I've known for over a decade and love like family (and no, I don't want to fuck my family, that's gross). Any potential SO who's not okay with me maintaining these friendships (and yes, that occasionally includes going out and getting drunk with said friends) is frankly not someone I'd want to get involved with.

Aug 28 11 - 9:40am
Me

Yeah, I disagree with everyone who's saying that opposite sex friendships don't work. First of all, I am a woman and have many guy friends, some of whom are in serious relationships, whose girlfriends I get along with fabulously. I have a few straight guy friends who are single, but we remain friends whether or not there may have been some fleeting attraction because we realize that we would not work as a couple for whatever reason but make great friends. And furthermore, almost everyone I know is like me: they successfully maintain friendships with opposite sex without causing drama or jealousy with their friends' romantic partners. I guess I just hang out with people who know how to wear their grownup pants? Because the few people I know who have a problem with opposite sex friends are painfully immature.

Secondly, if we all should avoid friendships where sexual attraction might pose a problem, we might as well not be friends with anyone, because I have experienced sexual attraction to some of my female friends as well, even though I am mostly attracted to men and almost always date men. I'm not in denial about my sexuality - I consider myself bi with mostly-straight leanings - but there definitely are women in this world that I'm attracted to. And again, I think that's true for many of the people I know and spend time with.

So, in summary, any kind of relationship with any human being has the potential to become complicated, and have some kind of sexual attraction/tension, because we are all complicated, sexual beings. That's no reason to avoid friendships. As long as the relationship is based on respect and open communication, all the other awkwardness or conflict that may arise can almost always be resolved.

Aug 28 11 - 11:55pm
KH

I'm bisexual, so these "can we have opposite sex friends" conversations always seem stupid to me. Because, I have friends, so, obviously YOU CAN DO IT, STRAIGHT PEOPLE! You can avoid people with whom you have sexual tension if you want (I should probably do this more), but, straight people who say that men and women can't be friends: do you really have sexual tension with every person of the opposite sex? Seems exhausting.

Aug 29 11 - 1:03pm
Me

High five, KH!

Aug 29 11 - 9:31pm
BFF Guy

Well, KH, I have other female friends with whom I *don't* have sexual tension, so the answer to your query is "No, I don't really have sexual tension with every person of the opposite sex." I have sexual tension with my BFF (a term meant for a laugh as much as it is serious) because I'm sexually attracted to her. The emotional attachment just makes it more hilarious fun. I don't avoid her because I'm not a teenager and unlike some other people hereabouts I can control my libido. (I take it for walks on a leash with a muzzle. Yes, that's a euphemism for masturbation. No, it's not a very good one.)

Aug 29 11 - 9:38pm
BFF Guy

And as far as my friend being a "sadist" or "insensitive", she and I have always discussed limits on conversation. When she was first seeing the guy who became her husband, she asked if it was okay to talk about their Sex Life. I said it was. Of course it wasn't, not at first, but as they got more serious as a couple I became more okay with it. Yeah, I should've been more honest up front and said I wasn't comfortable and yeah, she should've known I wouldn't be, but (and here's the crazy part, folks) we're friends so we, you know, got the F&$% over it. As I'm sure we'll get over this recent development (which falls under the category of "Sex Life"). Once we have a conversation about it, now that I feel reassured that I'm not being a complete asshole. Which I thank you for, Cait!

Aug 27 11 - 3:52am
Oh my

Letter writer #1 seriously needs other female interests. And spend more time taking new women on dates and working on his own sex life, than driving himself crazy picking up every little bone his ''friend'' chooses to throw him, i.e. using him as a sounding-board for her sex life.
Yes, friendship between the sexes is possible, but it requires a lot more sensitivity than the woman is showing in this case.

Aug 27 11 - 6:03am
Geo

BFF WTF? should grow a pair and tell his BFF to STFU about the extra-marital sex unless it includes him. Then he should just walk away.

Aug 27 11 - 6:22am
nope

Based on nothing but broad speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if the "BFF" of LW#1 was being purposefully obnoxious about her affairs in order to provoke a reaction. Maybe she's interested in him but terrified of making a move, so she's egging him on in this manner? I certainly can't imagine that she's both a decent person to him (which I would assume due to their long friendship) and aware of his desire for her, and she's just behaving out of ignorance. I would think there's something--although I don't know what--going on under the surface.

Aug 27 11 - 9:55am
Tack

Your little parallel-situation vignettes are hilarious. The "Four hours later…" one from LW#2's response, especially. Keep it up. :)

Aug 27 11 - 10:04am
Studio

Old friends, good friends, and close friends are all terms that don't seem too weird to me when talking about hetero friendships of the opposite sex. But BFF? That's weird. Maybe I'm an old-fashioned Martian. I've always thought your BFF should be either your long term significant other or a person with whom you would never in a million drunken years hookup with because your parts don't really work that way and/or their orientation prevents you from having any curious hypothetical thoughts about them.

#1 reeeally needs to find some distance, find new friends, and most importantly, find new love. Otherwise it's only going to get worse from here. I like the advice to #2 try the AP "Bigger Person" route -- when it works it's a win-win, and when it doesn't, you still come out as the one who made the effort, and have hand for the future if things get uglier.

Aug 27 11 - 3:41pm
nn

I knew a straight guy who described himself as BFF with his ex-girlfriend. No joke.

Aug 27 11 - 9:43pm
mp

my and my cat are BFFs. you need to take your narrow minded ideas elsewhere!

Aug 28 11 - 7:44pm
CaitRobinson

@mp Hear, hear! THEY UNDERSTAND ME (and sometimes they wear bonnets.)

Aug 27 11 - 12:47pm
yikes

THANK YOU to Cait for calling out those who are not good hosts, at parties and otherwise. I have hung out with so many friends who do not have/take the time to bridge the gap between all of their different friends that are not friends with each other. It makes parties/interactions awkward and boring, leaving you feeling left out and others around you that you don't like them. Cait's advice was completely correct. Talk to the boyfriend, explain how you feel and how you can both do more to make it work. Make the effort if you can to hang out with his friend, and if it doesn't work out, let it be.

Aug 27 11 - 1:19pm
well

LW#2: "It's almost as if she puts her marriage to the side to relive her high-school/college partying days, and I find that unacceptable."

Why is the writer passing judgment on the *friend's* behavior in her marriage? Maybe she's doing so as an indirect criticism for her BF's behavior, but the phrasing here sends up a red flag nonetheless. And anyway, how does going for drinks with a friend constitute "putting [one's] marriage to the side," unless you're sleeping with said friend after the drinks? I'm not married, but I never thought putting on a ring required you to spend every waking moment with your spouse.

There's no expectation for "Fed Up" to be friends, or even get along, with all of her BF's friends. He can spend time with her away from them, and time with them away from her. The fact that Fed Up finds this unacceptable leads me to think she might be a bit of a control freak.

Aug 27 11 - 3:43pm
nn

I caught that bit too. My impression is that the writer in the second letter maybe DOES have the expectation that you should send every waking moment with your significant other. I'm assuming that's part of the reason she's always out with her boyfriend when he's hanging out with the friend she finds annoying. I would think that would be exhausting.

But anyway, I thought all of Caitlin's advice was excellent.

Aug 27 11 - 1:59pm
Yahoo

Answer to first question is simple: He's a chump and needs to cut off all contact with these people to get his head out of this shit. She's using him as her emotional tampon. Basically, this is the grown up version of the teasing bitch using the sucker nice guy to bitch about every guy that uses her, while not giving him anything.

Aug 27 11 - 3:49pm
nn

How do you know he hasn't talked about his lady problems with her? I've got a guy friend who I think may have a slight crush on me, and that's how we operate. I bitch about guys to him, he sometimes talks about women to me and asks for advice with them, etc. It's all about being mature adults and realizing that sometimes dealing with conflicting emotions is party of life. That being said, if it's become an overall negative relationship for him it's up to him to act. But you don't know from the letter whether or not he'd say that's the case.

Aug 28 11 - 1:05pm
Yahoo

Very true, but that part was not mentioned in the letter, so I don't know if he does. If he did, yeah, that would make a difference, but they didn't say that and I don't want to be assumptuous and put words in peoples mouths, so I can only go by what I read. Conflicting emotions is one thing, using people/being manipulative in any way is another. Like I said, I can only go by what's there and what I read, and it sounds to me like she's using/teasing him, and he won't say no stop or gain some more self control and walk away and not put himself through it. I mean I personally have zero tolerance for that kind of shit and will not put myself through that. You either give me what I want or you don't, and I'm not here to be your freind and all that. I do think in those rare,rare,rare instances though, men and women can be just freinds. I do believe that. But I think even that has to have limits. It is up to him to act, but she knows what shes doing to and she can be a "mature adult" as you put it and not do that shit either. Don't put all the blame on this guy and let her get away with it either. She's just as bad/guilty too.

Aug 28 11 - 1:22pm
el knid

You know, just because you like a girl who doesn't like you back doesn't mean you're a "nice guy," and not wanting to bang a male friend who has a crush on her doesn't automatically make a girl a 'teasing bitch' using him as an 'emotional tampon.' LW#1's lady-BFF seems to have made it perfectly clear that she's not interested in him in that way. What else is she supposed to do?

Having an unrequited crush on someone isn't the same thing as being their friend. Somehow he's managed to get this far along doing only the former; he needs to figure out if he is really capable of doing the latter, without his jealousy or resentment causing problems.

Aug 27 11 - 3:51pm
Jinna

Yes, Caitlin really uses such amazingly relatable anecdotes - like the "bad host" metaphor - that for whatever reason other advice columnists fail to use. It really brings the advice to the level where you don't feel isolated in your conundrum. Caitlin has a great voice for this. I agree that she should write a book!

Aug 29 11 - 12:16am
Litsa

Cait, let me chime in and say I find both your writing and your advice wonderful. Cheers!

Aug 29 11 - 10:00pm
BFF Guy

Big ups to El Knid and nn for their responses. I'm of the belief that too many guys who call themselves "nice guys" are really jerks who get pissed off when their faux sensitivity doesn't get them laid. I get what Yahoo is saying about emotional tampon (awesome sexism, bee tee dubs), but that doesn't apply. For your information, nn is right in her supposition. I do, indeed, dump on BFF when I have girl trouble. (And I've discussed my sex life with BFF, so it's not like this is a one-way street). For her part, when I actually have girl trouble BFF threatens to "cut a bitch". She's actually very sweet. But a temper? Woof! Incidentally, Oh My makes a good point, too. Which is that if I spent more time on my own love life I wouldn't be so overly sensitive about BFF's. It's not only easier to feel resentment at shadows, as Cait said, it's easier to feel resentment when I'm not getting any. Which isn't fair and I know it, I just wasn't sure how to approach a conversation or if I was being an asshole. Hence the letter.

Aug 29 11 - 10:11pm
BFF Guy

Incidentally, Cait, BFF is a big fan of smothered cheese fries. So I very likely would say exactly that. Also, you were strangely accurate regarding my thoughts. My brain is, indeed, filled with small fixations (just started watching Rescue Me and it's obsessing me), 80s cartoon themes (Thundercats more frequently these days since the new show started on Cartoon Network), and sugar cravings (darkchocolatedarkchocolatedarkchocolate). And you quoted from Steve Martin recently, who wrote my e-mail signature. Are you freaking psychic?

Sep 05 11 - 11:45pm
matt

Cait, please let me know if you ever figure out how erase 80s cartoon themes from your memory.

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