Miss Information
Why do guys complain about my high libido?
by Cait Robinson
Have a question for Miss Information? Email .
Dear Miss Information,
I'm twenty-one years old and I'll be graduating from college this May. As graduation approaches, I'm getting increasingly self-conscious about the fact that I'm a virgin. Last year was the first time I fell hard for a guy and got anywhere close to sex, but when I told him I'd never done it before, he backed off and said he didn't want to be my first because he knew "how much that means to girls." At the time, I thought he was being gentlemanly, but lately I'm not so sure.
Until recently, I was seeing a guy who was also a virgin, and we had both expressed desire to be each other's first, but after we gave it a try and things didn't quite work, he freaked out and ended it and we haven't spoken since. Ever since, my virgin anxiety (perhaps unsurprisingly) has gone into overdrive. Along with all the stupid, irrational thoughts about my only two serious romances ending as soon as sex entered the picture, I can't stop thinking about what that first guy said. I'm terrified that as I graduate and get older, the fact that I'm a virgin is going to be a bigger and bigger problem for men who will naturally assume that a twenty-something who isn't religious has already lost it.
How do I deal with this fact after I graduate and enter a wider and more experienced dating pool? When and how do I bring it up? And how can I keep these two unfortunately similar experiences with guys from making me even more nervous about sex than I already am?
— Losing It Over Losing It
Dear Losing It Over Losing It,
Though I am now paid to think about strangers having sex, I was also a relatively old virgin. My virginity went from technical to nonexistent somewhere around twenty-three or twenty-four. I honestly don't remember how old I was, because it turns out the whole thing was kind of a non-issue. Virginity: what a hilarious con!
My point is, Losing It, I get it. And from the other side of the fence, let me just tell you that the whole "virginity" thing is a wacky and unnecessarily terrifying farce. That old chestnut "sex is a big deal to girls" is a trope used by jerks to slip out of responsibility. It's not chivalrous; it's weak. Sleeping with someone won't turn you into a commitment-hungry firemonster, nor will it open the heavens and rain gold coins on you. Who you are on Saturday night is who you will be on Sunday morning. Sex is no big deal, as long as you take ownership of when and with whom you have it. That ownership is a real power: don't let your anxiety undermine your own confidence in yourself. The rest will sort itself out.
There is also a widely-assumed misconception that sex involves a skill set that everyone must have by the time they graduate college, like a working knowledge about power tools or Foucault. Not so. Every person you sleep with will be a different dialect of the same language — one guy may love it when you bite, the next may recoil as if you just called him "Daddy." The only skill you need for good sex is listening. Listen to yourself (what feels good for you?) and listen to your partner (what feels good for them?) If you find yourself mentally reviewing Cosmo or Maxim, you're having bad sex. Stay present, and think about sex like a collaboration, because it is. If you've got trust and comfort, the rest should just flow.
Your virginity is not a liability, Losing It. In a backhanded way, it sounds like it actually benefited you. It weeded out two partners who, frankly, sound unstable and lame. So go forth confidently and date who you want to date. When it comes up, it will come up — but just remember that you have nothing to apologize for. Any guy worth his salt will be into you for you, and the issue of virginity will be exactly what it should be: a footnote in your personal history, rather than a neon sign on your forehead.
Dear Miss Information,
I've had one long-term boyfriend and a few flings/long-term almost-boyfriends, and, with the exception of one, all of them have commented at some point in the relationship that I seem to be overly interested in sex. This started when I was nineteen with my first boyfriend, and the statement felt like an accusation and caused me a lot of anxiety. As we began to have a few problems, sex happened less and less often, and I felt less and less desirable. While trying to get over that relationship, I wrote it off and told myself that there was nothing wrong with me — I just needed a guy with a similar libido. But since then, I've had two or three men muse aloud on the same thing — or they've openly rejected me, or asked me if sex was the only reason I wanted to see them.
I'm not sure what I'm doing to send that message to men. I would say that I do have a high sex drive, but it's not as though I leave all the pressure on the man I'm seeing to initiate, or that I can't take no for an answer. I initiate at least fifty-percent of the time, and I consider myself a pretty open and "sex-positive" person. I've been told that I'm very caring, loyal, and considerate, and I love and participate in non-sexual affection as well.
Also, I only start getting these comments after the initial few months of an exclusive relationship. Am I just not sexually compatible with these particular men, or is something in my actions or language sending a message that sex is my only motivation for spending time with them? And even if I have a high sex drive, what's so wrong with that?
— Sexy Time All the Time
Dear Sexy Time All the Time,
If you hear something over and over, it's hard not to assume responsibility. Are you habitually attracted to the wrong guys? Are you propositioning guys at the worst possible times? Or are you habitually attracted to people with zero brain-to-word filters? (If it's #3, let me know. Your club membership packet will be in the mail.)
I'm most interested in your use of the phrase "long-term almost-boyfriends," who you then say you're in exclusive relationships with. So, which is it? What's standing in the way of these guys being boyfriends, if they are both long-term and exclusive? If there's a semantic difference here, there is probably also some emotional distance — i.e. you hold a non-boyfriend to a lower standard than a "real" one, both in terms of commitment and communication. Without commitment, someone might put less thought into what their idle musings do to you emotionally, given the casual nature of your relationship.
I would wager that these past problems were just about compatibility, compounded by poor communication skills. It sounds like you and these guys haven't had much discussion around the issue. That might be the real problem. Did you ever ask them to elaborate on their statements? Bombshells shouldn't just be "mused aloud," especially if they leave you baffled.
If you find this happening again, turn it into a conversation: "I am so sorry you feel that way. What do you mean?" Focus on talking through the source of stress — odds are you and your libido are just a convenient scapegoat for something else entirely. I can speculate all I want, but only the guy himself can tell you what is really going on.
P.S.: Commenters, here's a game called "What's the most fucked-up thing a date/partner has ever mused aloud to you?" I wish I had a prize to give the winner.
Want to meet someone libidinal? Head for Hooksexup Dating.
Commentarium (113 Comments)
I think I can win the "most fucked-up thing a date/partner has ever mused aloud to you" game! After telling him that I'm sorry I don't get more wet and that being on the pill dries me out a bit, he decided to mention how his ex got SO wet that she would leave wet spots on the couch and on his pants. Thanks, buddy, thanks. Glad you're comparing me to someone you haven't slept with in over a year and a half when we've been sleeping together for a year.
Charlotte, you'll have come competition for that dubious crown. My best two nuggets of non-deliciousness:
1. The guy who, still naked and post-coital, mused aloud that was "bigger than any other girl [he'd] slept with and [his] usual moves didn't work."
2. The really awful guy that claimed he couldn't go down on me because I tasted exactly like a particularly evil ex of his. This announcement was definitely timed to produce tears, and did not preclude him expecting non-reciprocated blowjobs.
My taste in men has since improved considerable. My OWN taste has always been delightful, one asshole's opinion notwithstanding.
'You are so sexy when we are in bed, but when we are out in public it just isn't there. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.'
Yyyikes.
"It doesn't bother me that your ex is better looking than me. So I don't understand why you're so upset at me for saying my ex is better looking than you."
Ha! What an asshat.
You can't expect me to listen to everything you say.
Why do I feel like this going to be only women complaining about what guys must aloud?
...because you're a sexist?
<3
Probably, although it also looks like I'm right so far.
But then you should know best of all that most commenters on that subject will be women because men don't listen to or remember anything women, anyways.
@Rachel too: except for the first comment, there's actually no way to know the genders of these people... Just sayin'. That assumption came from YOU.
Yeah, I guess you're right about most of them.
Well, here's one for the menfolk, then:
My first serious girlfriend was the biggest asshole I've ever dated -- a totally self-involved shithead of a person, though I couldn't see it until afterwards. We were in a LDR, so we'd call each other a few times a week, and see each other every 2-3 weeks.
Over Christmas, my aunt unexpectedly died. When Ms. Asshole called that night (or vice versa, I don't remember), I broke the news. She didn't seem to care. During our conversation, I was subdued and sort of sad, which apparently offended her. (Other people's feelings were never of much interest to her.)
At the end, trying to reconnect, I said something like "Sorry I've been kind of a downer, but I just want to say that I love you and miss you."
There was a long pause, and then her voice came over the line, ice-cold: "I _missed_ you."
I'm still not sure why I didn't have the good sense to dump her right there and then. After we broke up, she dated a few mutual friends, and I heard some amazing stories of her callousness, but they're not mine to repeat.
"Oh, I didn't think we were actually dating"
Not something you say straight up. Ahhh highschool
I was having casual sex with a friend who knew I was head over heels for another guy. At the point of climax he shouted out "*insert other guy's name here* is an IDIOT!"
Not so much fucked up in the jerk sense as fucked up in the hilarious sense.
I really like this one!
plus, really complimentary to you--he was enjoying his time with you, AND saying, "You are so awesome! He's blind that he can't see that!" This guy sounded like a good FB all the way around.
Whoa! Mind-bender. It's backhanded, but...thanks?
Message to STAT: Don't change a thing about who you are. Change who you have sex with. A woman with a high libido who initiates sex 50% of the time is a dream come true for any normal guy.
^ that
Actually, no, not really. Most people turn into housecats after a while. Despite the inherent awesomeness of climax, somehow most human people seem to tire of it when guaranteed a limitless, live-in supply of sexual gratification. Which is pathetic, frankly, but unfortunately true. I'm still figuring out a way to slip "stay slutty" into wedding vows.
@lb: I think it depends on the kind of sex you're having. The boyfriend and I have been together for a year and a half, and we still have sex 2-3 times a day. Orgasms are awesome -- how could anyone get sick of them?
I think this is just a matter of sexual compatibility. Not all women would rather eat brownies than fuck, and not all men are up for it all the time. You need to find someone with a similar libido, who places a similar importance on sex, and if you're a woman someone who doesn't have gross sexist hangups about women initiating.
@lb: Speak for yourself.
I wish it was true that "any normal guy" really does enjoy women with high libidos. My higher sex drive has been a driving component of several failed long term relationships and it is always a fine blend of frustrating, humiliating, and befuddling. I try to keep the hope alive that there are genuinely men out there who like sex more than once in awhile, but so far, we don't seem to be finding each other.
sigh, as a male on the other side of that Jess i can sympathize. i can't say several of my relationships ended only because i had a higher libido but it certainly didn't help. i did date someone for 5 years and we both said it was the best physical relationship we'd ever had. but she wanted an ambitious, urban yuppie guy and i'm just a rural, laid back ex-hippie type. so when she finally met 'the one' she was gone...
Ha! One woman's meat is another woman's poison, always. I would put up with a whole lot of patchouli and crickets for regular sex, in particular with a guy who has a bit of a range of activities that he enjoys. Alas, I find myself surrounded by well-groomed professionals who disdain dirty bedsheets. I'm sure there's a lovely life lesson in there somewhere, I just haven't found it yet.
I tell you what, though--if a man ever dumped me because he wanted more sex than I could offer, I would genuinely laugh with glee. I believe that that would give me enough joy to make me skip through the city streets, just to see what the other side felt like.
I think you two need to find each other on Hooksexup dating.
@Jess, seriously, you must look at some polling on this. One of the biggest complaints guys have is about the sex drives of their partners being l0w. Most guys (at least when we're young) want it at least once a day -- and more on weekends. I've only once met someone whose libido matched mine. There must be something about the kind of guy you are choosing or who you are letting choose you. For example, maybe you come across as demure, so you attract guys who are looking for demure (i.e., passive). There's nothing wrong with you. Please don't change. The right guy is out there for you and you are going to be his dream come true.
Sigtunafish, I think times are changing a bit, though. One partner and I saw a Relate counsellor to see if we could find a workable solution for us and we were told that they are seeing more and more couples come in where it is the male partner who is less interested in sex (or as is often the case: Very interested in masturbation, less interested in intercourse). Certainly, there are a few surveys which indicate that there might be a link between dropping testosterone levels, social behaviours, and declining sex drives in men.
I'm likely the least demure person you could ever hope to meet, so I'm not sure that's it, but I'm definitely not arguing the idea that I'm somehow attracting the wrong type of guy. I'm just not sure what it is because I have always been very open about my higher need for sex.
Just one of those charming mysteries for the ages, I suppose. I couldn't change if I wanted to, fortunately or unfortunately.
I dated a chick with a high libido for awhile. Best time of my life. It was too bad we had absolutely nothing in common and started to drive each other loco. Every other gal I've been with has acted like sex was some sort of annual event.
@Jess, I guess it could be a lot of things. Could be a boyfriend's ambivalence about the relationship, his insecurity, his desire for more control, his fear of intimacy, his stress levels, performance anxiety or something else. But obviously, high interest in masturbation and lower interest in sex are indicative of the issues I mentioned more than they are of dropping testosterone levels. Personally, I think sex is an excellent barometer for the relationship and the EASIEST thing to get right. If a guy can't keep up with you there's something wrong with him or there's something wrong with the relationship. There's nothing wrong with you!
I should just add that not one of my lower-libido girlfriends ever "complained" about my higher sex drive. So when I see this : "As we began to have a few problems, sex happened less and less often, and I felt less and less desirable," I see a few red flags. It's one thing to have a lower libido than one's girlfriend. I guess it really does happen. But I think I'd have the good grace to feel flattered that she thought I was so hot and to express my gratitude. Plus, how hard would it be to offer one's girlfriend some cuddles, kisses, oral sex and, at the very least, some reassurance? These guys are NOT reassuring. They are undercutting asshole types who are eroding the LW's self-esteem. And THAT, even more than the differing libidos, is a big problem.
I think there is a real divide between how we imagine ourselves and how we really are in the day to day grind. There are plenty of people in the world who would--all things being equal--be more than happy to turn down sex in order to masturbate instead, as crazy as that seems to people who are hankering for sex. The world is just chock full of exceedingly lazy people, if we're being completely frank. There are men in the world (women, too, I assume, but I do not know them) who love their internet porn and masturbation time, but are less interested in the effort that goes into having sex.
I think that this divide between who we are in our heads--"I am a randy sex machine; I want it all the time"--and who we are in real life--"I kind of just want to eat nachos straight out of the bag while sitting in front of the television and maybe pull one out into a sock later on if I get bored"--is how I keep stumbling unwittingly into relationships with guys who like sex to start with--or talk a big game--but then taper off as time goes on.
Interestingly, I haven't had any real problems with men losing interest in sex due to other problems in the relationship, insecurities, or things like that. It's pretty much straight up an issue with the guy not particularly wanting sex and not being quite as motivated to "take one for the team" as I think women have been primed to be through a shed-load of women's magazines that have been telling us for years that if we're not in the mood we should fake it or suck it. Most of my partners even start masturbating far less often to go along with their general lack of interest in sex. No one is stepping out on each other because they're bored at home, even. Just straight up not being interested in having sex very often.
It's either bad luck or I give off some sort of weird pheromones that make men want to cuddle and sleep instead of fuck. I'm hoping that it's temporary bad luck, but it's so far covered a fair number of years and a fair number of men. I've had partners who disdain sex due to emotional reasons (which is valid, don't get me wrong, but not how I'm programmed), like not wanting to have sex after a fight or when they're stressed. I've had partners who think that sex naturally declines in rate as a relationship progresses (which is not my belief at all--why would anyone get into a relationship if they knew it would lead to less sex?) or who just don't think it's that big of a deal.
I've also had more than a couple partners now who don't particularly care for oral sex, either giving or receiving, but I'm really hoping that that is just an issue of living in the UK. At least that gives me the hope that I can move countries for my salvation, rather than having to think that men have universally stopped being interested in extracurriculars.
Jess, LOL, I could bring out all kinds of negative stereotypes I've heard about British men right now. But instead I'll just say...cum to the U.S.A.! I have a high energy level.... ;)
@Jess, you are a treasure. So sane, so good-natured, so intelligent, so forthright, so perceptive, with a great sense of humor, AND with a high libido. Whatever you do, don't settle.
OMG, Jess, it's like you and I are the same person. Same situations, same reasons, partners not masturbating, really. Just no interest in sex. And this is after a hot and heavy first few months to the relationship. I am an attractive, intelligent woman with a great deal of sexual energy, and have been pursued by some really wonderful men, only to have the rate of sex decline after a brief period. I was also given the excuse that "this is just how relationships go" and I find that strange. Hey men I date! I want to have sex 5-7 times a week, I want variety, I want to give you what you want, I want to try to make our fantasies happen, because I don't see how our monogamous relationship will work out if we don' t! I have even proposed the idea of an open situation and they never go for that either. It's like prison. :(
I know this is an older thread but, Jess, your last post made me want to find you and have wine with you and be your best friend, and I couldn't resist tacking on.
I'm married to a wonderful man but have the exact same struggles as you. I'm the high libido partner, he's the one whose general interest has just sort of tapered over time. We're happy and in love and when we have sex it's great, but we differ in terms of ideal frequency. For me, once every day or two would be ideal. For him, it's once a week. Perhaps not a huge difference, but over time, it takes its toll.
Your assessment of these types of situations and the many reasons behind them is so helpful. I too am tired of the "any normal guy would want to bang you every second of every day" mantra. That's not how real life goes. As I've learned over time and through many conversations, for some men, emotions, stress, and the state of the relationship all play an important role in their sex drive. In my relationship, I'm the one who can still "get it up" (I'm a woman, but you know what I mean) even if we're not getting along or I'm stressed or tired. And he's the one who needs to have his head and heart into it in order for his manhood to be into it.
There is also something to be said for not always being sexually available, even when you want to be. At the beginning of a relationship, the guy isn't going to be completely certain when or if he's going to get it. You're desirable because you must be attained, as primal and neanderthal as that may be. Over time, especially in long-term relationships (or, obviously, marriage), that dynamic shifts. You know you don't have to work for it. For the high-libido partner, that's great, because we're always ready. We don't need the chase as much. For the low-libido partner, I think that can have the effect of further reducing sex drive in a weird way. It's like they relax into the easy route, which is masturbation to get the rocks off, and sex on the weekends or at some other infrequent interval when it's easier, or they're not as tired, or they get revved up for a special occasion.
It's hard to summarize this sort of thing in a comment like this, because I know I'm oversimplifying, even though this post is already too damn long. But I wanted to say you're not the only one. Reading your words gave me some really helpful insight and, simply, made me feel better.
All that said...try to end up with a really, really, really horny guy. And then still play hard to get from time to time.
"look, if it helps, i think i love you *shrug*" that was a great night.
I got thinking about Losing It. I totally agree with the headspace she should be aiming for when approaching it, as it were. But I do take issue with the assertion that someone who is hesitant about being with a virgin is automatically a douche. Crazy Virgin Girl is a real person, just like Guy Who Cries After Sex, or Guy Who Says I Love You After The First Date. Or Crazy Virgin Guy, for that matter. One of my friends is That Guy, and from all accounts he makes the Crazy Virgin Girl i dated seem downright reasonable. My point is that while a person who is worthy should be able to deal and handle him or herself like an adult, if the advice is basically virginity really isn't that big of a deal, why not just not mention it till after? not lie about it, because that's bad, but just deflect any discussion of previous partners/experience, because its not really important. one of my best friends did that after undergrad - she had high praises for the strategy. her bf was a little hurt for about 10 seconds. but 'i didnt want to put you under any pressure to make it special for me' is kindof hard to argue with.
I don't know that that works for both sexes. I'm a woman, and I cried during my first time having sex (and I was on top), and the next couple of times as well, it hurt so badly. Not a hymen-issue, just a tightness issue. Two of my good female friends cried as well. Unless you've extensively prepared yourself with a dildo, I think virgin women should make sure their first time is with a very understanding and compassionate partner. If it hurts, you're automatically vulnerable.
"That old chestnut "sex is a big deal to girls" is a trope used by jerks to slip out of responsibility. It's not chivalrous; it's weak."
Um, that's a completely fucked-up thing to say. I'm glad losing your virginity was no big deal, but to many women, it's a REALLY big deal. Men too, though there are physical and social realities that make a difference in the equation (at least in a hetero context). Many people develop sudden, painfully intense attachments to the first person they have sex with -- which again, is probably some combination of social/psychological and physical factors.
Arguing that a guy who treats that with respect and caution, is a "jerk" who's trying to "slip out of responsibility"...I mean, where to begin? It's just spectacularly bad, self-centered advice. I don't know what women will make of it, but a guy reading it is going to think "OK, then what the fuck am I supposed to do? Is everything always my fault?"
Do you really think the two guys "Losing it" mentions treated her (and her virginity) with "respect and caution"??? Seems to me like they both threw up their hands and backed out... EVEN if it was their intention, "Losing it" is clearly NOT feeling any "respect."
And regarding your comment on guys thinking "is everything always my fault?" You're absolutely right, every woman on the planet is an inscrutable, inexplicable bitch. Men are really the only sane ones, and it's all we can do avoid the wrath that trying to be a good guy incurs.
:(
The second one just freaked out (for whatever reason -- it's not clear from the letter). As for the first one, what should he have done differently? Are we seriously excoriating someone because instead of saying "Yee-haw, I'm'a gonna git laid!", he said "Hmmm, this girl deserves to lose her virginity with someone who really loves her, and I'm not that guy"?
I guess you can claim that he simply didn't want to deal with the issues that would come up, but it just seems like an effort is being made to specifically assign blame to the guy. And if I'm going to be honest: yes, I think Cait usually takes the woman's side in these letters. Mostly it's not an issue, but today's example was particularly egregious because there's literally nothing a guy can do in that situation without being blamed for it. If he plows ahead, he's an insensitive cad; if he declines, he's a jerk who's trying to evade responsibility. It's a shitty double-bind, and unworthy.
As for your second paragraph, I think the simplest reply is: go fuck yourself. That's a shitty, cowardly thing to write, and you know it. The last thing the world needs is more people who caricature and belittle other people with whom they disagree. I'm fine with disagreement and reasoned debate, but when you put words in my mouth, you put yourself in the company of people like Rush Limbaugh.
All I can say is that, having had sex, weirdly, with three virgins outside of college or high school experiences, it, to me, was a high-stress, low-reward situation. I had to do a good job (and it's all on me, because I am the 'expert') and navigate an emotional minefield, and one a purely physical level, the act is virtually guaranteed to be fairly unfulfilling, because I am told that first-time lady sex is uncomfortable and this is your first rodeo, so you have no idea what you're doing. If you were awesome and we had a deep emotional connection, sure, great, I will grapple with the many-headed hydra of expectations, etc. to win your love, but if we are just getting to know/like each other and we mutually arrive at the pants-off dance-off, this is a lot to lay on a dude. Please forgive me for the admission that I sometimes have the sex without being in love, Hooksexup. You know you're the only one for me.
@AAC - Yes, sex is a big deal to SOME girls - not all. But that doesn't change the fact that the "sex is a big deal to girls!" trope is incredibly prevalent in our society, used in a lot of really harmful misogynistic ways, and is so overpoweringly believed that it really erases the experiences of girls who do not feel that way.
Also, won't argue with you about the social constraints on women having sex, but as for the "physical differences" you mention, the science is still out on that one.
You're dead on about my last paragraph... I'm sorry. As you rightly point out, it was belittling. A knee jerk response... and an attempt at humor to diffuse what I deemed a "CIS men have it sooo hard" complex. Sorry again, and please keep on sharing those rational thoughts; your comments are well expressed and definitely thought-provoking, will go fuck self now.
Anyone can get attached to another person after any sexual encounter, not just the first time. It's just a risk we all take when we agree to sleep with another person. I think Losing It should go get herself some and tell the dude later, if she feels like it.
Bad advice. Sex is different for everyone! Sex CAN be complicated/a big deal, regardless of your gender; just look at LW's description of her first also-virgin guy!
I also want to say that the "sex is a big deal" trope may also be used by people who genuinely care about not hurting another person. And frankly, seems like a better safe than sorry situation to me. Isn't it better to assume that it might be a big deal to another person than not? Because the opposite approach could lead to a lot of emotional pain, whereas, if it's NOT a big deal, then the person who is being wrongly assumed about should have no problem saying "actually, sex isn't really that big of a deal for me. Let's go for it!"
@lb, I agree with you. As I posted above, for many women it's not possible for first-intercourse to be casual, because it hurts! A lot. The "trust and comfort" Caitlin mentioned is MORE mandatory for a first-time, not less.
I need to see this study that proves "Many people develop sudden, painfully intense attachments to the first person they have sex with." I have read about certain hormonal releases, particularly in women, and a suggestion that it might make women attached, but those studies seem to be mostly ignored by psychologists because of their sexist bias. They are, however, part of belief in popular media as so many studies come to be, proven by the fact that this conversation is even happening.
Letter # 1
That advice was bollocks. Sex is and can be a deal, if you're wired that way, and I am. As a male, I didnt get a girl naked until 23, and didnt "lose it" until 24. So you are certainly not the oldest virgin of all time. :) Most people lose it in their 20s somewhere. Also, lots of people like the idea of being someone's first. Deflowering and all that. There's a reason that the idea of the female virgin has been popular throughout history.
This is how you get someone to take your virginity.
1 Make sure that you feel and look good to yourself.
2 Find someone who is going to be gentle with your heart aka not the douchest douche from douchetown.
3 I read a book on cunnilingus to handle my own anxiety and learn where stuff was....
4 After and only after you have gotten them naked and given an orgasm should you mention youre a virgin.
Shrug it off like its no big deal and nobody will care :) That was exactly what I did. We snuggled and she was so nice about it! It nourished my soul.
Letter writer 2
Where have you been all my life. The only thing better than an enthusiastic female partner is an enthusiastic female partner who wants it all the time :)
"There's a reason that the idea of the female virgin has been popular throughout history. "
Bad, bad scary misogynistic reasons, IMO.
(no real disagreement with the rest of your post, except that I'd say #4 is really a personal choice everyone has to make for themselves)
Yeah, agree with AW. Reminds me of boys I knew in (Catholic, if that matters) college who made a sport out of popping girls' cherries and dumping them right after they used them because they were no longer "pure."
@AW Historically, it comes down to the fact that if your wife is a virgin, then there's no chance your offspring aren't yours, which was hugely important for inheritance back when land ownership was EVERYTHING. (I agree there's a whole ton of cultural sexism surrounding this and emanating from this. Just an interesting bit of history to think about, especially as this was the case on a wide variety of cultures.)
As for most hurtful musing how about "Maybe we should sign a prenup saying I can leave you if you don't lose enough weight." From my soon-after ex fiance.
Wow. I would have told you to DTMFA if you hadn't already. What a jerk.
"I just don't want to have to deal with you falling in love with me, or anything like that."
Then I had to explain that our relationship would NEVER be more than fwb. I'm not sure who was the biggest jerk in that situation.
LW#1: Here's my experience, for what it's worth. I was a 20-year-old virgin who was fine with my Never Been Kissed status. I didn't really need a boyfriend, but I was getting increasingly horny and wanted to go out and Just Do It. I wasn't especially picky about looks, but I did require an intellectual match, so that weeded out a lot of the options at bars. I had a couple of close calls with acquaintances, who weren't aware I was a virgin, but something inside me made me chicken out at the last minute (not when I was already naked in bed, mind you -- just at the moment where we were about to go to his place, and I changed my mind).
Six months later, I met a cute and very intelligent boy who also happened to be a virgin. We got to second base (in public) on the first date, we caught up on missed Horny Teenager Activities in the back of his car over the next few weeks, and a month into it we had sex and it was lovely and awkward and cute. After that, I kind of understood what people had told me, about how sex was
different when it was with someone who was special to you. So I got lucky, and I'm glad I didn't go through with it with those other guys.
(The boyfriend and I have gotten better with practice, and a year and a half later we are still going at it like bunnies.)
Which is not to say that I wouldn't have been just as happy with a more casual encounter. I just had certain criteria for who it could be. I wrote this in an email to my boyfriend before he was even my boyfriend:
"I'm not holding out for Prince Charming and a rose-petals-and-candles scenario or anything. I just want my first time to be with a guy who respects me as a person, not just a chick or a collection of titillating body parts. Someone who likes my personality/wit enough to still want to be my friend whether or not the relationship continues (I think I'd be an awesome wingman!), and someone who wouldn't lose respect for me the morning after, because that's happened to way too many of my female friends."
Boyfriend or not, the right guy won't be afraid of the "consequences" of being your first time, and will respect you enough to believe you when you say that you won't turn into a commitment-hungry firemonster after you have sex.
I wouldn't recommend lying by omission (trust me, I've tried), just because I think it'll make itself known eventually either by your Hooksexups or physical discomfort. Just be honest about it: "I'm a virgin, and I'm cool with being a virgin, and I would like to have sex with you sometime."
Love the last paragraph especially! I tried the lying-by-ommission thing too; huge, awkward waste of time.
After my first boyfriend told me he loved me, I said it back. He then asked "how d'you know that you're in love? I only know that I love you because of I feel about you the same way I do for my ex."
Just wanted to say that I think Miss Info's advice to the virgin is the best I've ever read, though I hope she doesn't have to go through the same things in that movie clip to get it done!
For Sexy Time All The Time, sex-positive women are terrific! I'm not seeing the situations the guys are complaining about, but maybe they're right in the sense that there is more to relationships than just sex, sex is not the answer to everything, and if you're just pushing sex in all the time when they really just wanted someone to listen or assure them on some hardship in their lives, they might see it as you only being interested in sex and not in them as people. Next time this happens, step back and see if you can figure out what led up to this, or say, "Sorry, I do care about you. What's going on?"
I know a girl who was "really into sex" and it was a turn-off to me (we never hooked up, btw, but we talked about sex in the abstract and her other relationships quite a bit). It wasn't that she was so into sex, it was how obvious it was that her need for sex wasn't really about horniness but, in her recent words, "To make me feel alive." She found a really nice boyfriend and doesn't feel that way anymore, which is why she's now able to articulate what was pretty obvious to me from the start.
The other possibility is that you're more comfortable with sex than your boyfriend, and he doesn't really know how to get to your comfort level or express his discomfort to you, which results in him holding in his feelings while dismissing yours. A lot of guys feel pressure to want it all the time, and when they don't, and their girlfriend wants them to, it sets off a vicious cycle. In this case, the two options are 1) make an effort to get him to talk openly and feel more emotionally comfortable about sex (yes, guys need to be emotionally involved to enjoy sex as well), or 2) Find someone whose less insecure about it.
"I'm not the one who gets pregnant, so it's not my responsibility to think about birth control. I pull out. That's my part that I do. If you aren't comfortable with just that, you have to do something more."
My jaw literally dropped.
Oh! Yeah. I had a guy whine and whine about how much he hated condoms, then make an impassioned plea about the validity of the rhythm method. Hearts and stars! Hearts and stars!
After two sexy dates and one platonic one, I figured this dude was about to cut me off. Sure enough, he sat down and told me he didn't feel comfortable dating me casually anymore, because, quote, "I can already tell you're never going to be my girlfriend."
He then asked for a hand job.
Was his name David?
Once, a guy I was dating told me I had the "weirdest looking vagina he'd ever seen." OUCH. I've seen enough vaginas to know it's not that out of the ordinary, and when I asked him to explain, he said something like, "Well with all the possible genetic variations out there..." Whatever that means. We broke up soon after. Luckily, I got over it. Also, he ended up crawling back to me and my weirdo vagina after a while, and I of course spurned him.
From my chronically unemployed 'artist' ex, after a long day at work as the sole earner in our shared living arrangement:
"It's hard to feel sympathy for you because I could never respect what you do. All you do is indoctrinate people to make them slaves to our sick society."
I'm an elementary school teacher.
That's pretty incredible.
LMAO. You win, JCB, you win.
Best thing I've read all day.
nutty!
I think JCB should win, but the most fucked up thing anyone's ever told me came from a guy I'd had a crush on for a while. The flirting and sexual tension were amazing, but when we got into bed, he wanted to skip straight to sex. After about 45 seconds (and I'm being generous) of thrusting, he stopped, looked at me, and said "you should have cum three times by now." Um, I cum from clitoral stimulation, and it takes longer than 45 seconds, even when I'm getting myself off.
Maybe it was his first time and all he knew about sex was what he'd learned from porn. Though, to be fair to porn, the women don't come three ties in the first 45 seconds even in porn.
"You are awesome and really just about everything I'd want in a girlfriend, but I really think I deserve an Asian girlfriend. I hope that doesn't make me a jerk."
wow. i know that guy too.
Sexy Time, I also have an extremely high sex drive. I'm currently in a long-term relationship but it's 1. semi-long distance and 2. he's asexual. We do have sex and it's great, but it happens way more often than he'd like and way less often than I would. A more salient point is our other compromise: we're in an open sexual relationship, so I'm free to find, hook up, and even create friends with benefits situations with other people. (Dating sites work well for this because you can be both upfront and detached.) These arrangements are inherently sex-only, and it takes the pressure off of the committed relationship.
Nice sex toys and lots of masturbation also helps.
I have probably fifty zingers from the same guy, but we'll go with the most recent from earlier today:
"If you knew that I didn't ever want you to be my girlfriend, and you still fucked me, that makes you a slut."
(note: I had feelings for him, which he never reciprocated...at least, not when he wasn't trying to get me in bed)
And this was less of a musing and more of a one-last-fucked-up-thing-before-I-go, but "Sometimes when we were having sex I would realize that you weren't [my ex], so I just had to get off."
(there were at least two times where he just stopped/pushed me off of him without explanation...and he never even had sex with his ex!)
Earlier TODAY? You're still seeing this jerk? You must have really low self esteem.
Haven't seen or spoken to him since.
Great move, S***, and best wishes for whatever you decide to do next. A spell on your own or a kind sexy new friend, either way it is much better than being used as a punching bag (metaphorically or otherwise).
the most fucked up thing is being told about the pet names his ex-wife had for his anatomy, and then expecting me to use them. when i told him it wasn't a turn on to think about him and her having sex, he looked at me like i was the crazy one. oh yeah, and that his three year ole was "really hung". ewwww
Gross.
the second time one of my best male friends and I had sex after I'd just broken up with my long-term boyfriend: "I hope you're not telling the whole world about this. I mean, you DID just break up with ____."
from my long-term boyfriend, who was a controlling psycho, after I'd argue with him about his drunken calls to me when I was out with my friends (male and female), yelling and accusing me of cheating on him. He'd say, "I know y0u're just going to go on another one of your feminist rants, so you can spare me."
"nobody cares about what you have to say." from an ex of many years ago when I tried to talk about current events with his friends. for some reason I didn't dump him then and there.
Actually - and with great respect to JCB's impressive entry - this wins, according to me.
If 'winning' is what it is to be entirely dismissed as a human being.
That is just awful, smb, what a total fuckwad. I'm so pleased you're in a better place now.
(Um, you ARE in a better place now, aren't you...?)
That's two good things about me and my co-star being in our 60s. We don't say fucked-up things to each other, just hilarious things, and we both have sky-high libidos and act accordingly. 20something singles: It gets better.
I love the term "Co-Star!" I love it! Consider yourself about to be plagiarized, JM.
JM -- I really, really hope so. 28 and on and off with a guy who always says fucked up things to me, blames me for them, and judges me harshly for having a high libido.
"Gee, it's like a swamp down there, isn't it?"
He wasn't actually a bad guy, he just had a poor brain to mouth filter. And we were young.
In bed, having sex, me "Owww that hurts" Him "You wanted to fuck now move your hands."
Mine was a new relationship and he looked and me and said "just so you know I will never love you"
She came so hard she fell asleep in place, face down, butt up in the afternoon sunlight of my bedroom. I could see the semen glistening on the interior of her upper thigh. I went downstairs in my little house to bake orange roughie (what she liked) with an arugula salad, fresh from my garden. When she work up with lunch served, she said, "[Husaband's name] yelled at me last night for not cleaning that little strip of carpet that runs along the baseboards [in their McMansion]. He ran his finger on the carpet and put his dirty finger in front of my face. So I had to see you today."
For Losing It- I didn't have sex until I was 28, and a number of my friends have been in the same boat. Several friends slept with their SOs in high school, but honestly, most of my friends didn't have sex until at least college, and some (like me) after that. Some are waiting for marriage, but most of us were just waiting for the right person, someone who we felt comfortable getting naked (and more) with. For me, I wasn't waiting for marriage or some forever relationship- but I knew that I, personally, needed to feel comfortable on an extreme level with the other person. That happened to be when I was 28. While it was hard to know that I was among the last of my friends to sleep with someone, it was way easier for me to handle than the feeling of trusting that initial closeness (and pain!) to someone who didn't care for me in the way I needed.
Anyway- the moral of the story- don't stress so much at age 21- you'll be okay.
Sing it.
I think Cait gave great advice in her response. I lost my virginity when I was 22 and was glad I waited until I felt ready. Something that I think might help you if you haven't done so already, is to get a vibrator. I had my first pap smear at 21 (a little late, oops) and it killed. I found out, annoyingly, that I had "a lot of intact hymenal tissue" despite years of using tampons. I absolutely did not want to deal with the pain of a guy working his way through said tissue during sex. So i got a vibrator and took care of it myself and was so glad I did. My first time was free of physical pain and thanks to communication (and my own previous solo research into what gets me off) I enjoyed a few orgasms as well! As far as emotional pain, be wary of fwb arrangements...
They're just not that into you... the high libido thing is a red herring, they just don't want to have sex with YOU.
That could be true, but there is a lot of new information about women in relationships who are not getting as much sex as they would like...I think it might be more likely that as relationships progress, some women want to be intimate more often because there is more emotional intimacy at that point, whereas some/most men seem to become bored with readily available sex because it's consistently with the same woman.
Also, if these men just weren't that into the LW, why would they maintain the relationship emotionally and still want to spend time together, but turn sex down? In my experience, men who want out of a relationship or are just not that into it prefer to continue hooking up while spending less quality time with their partner, not the other way around.
"When I get back from study abroad we should meet up and talk about getting back together. Do you think you'll have a better job or more money by then?" I was the manager of my college dining hall at the time but couldn't afford a plane ticket to Europe to see her during spring break. Important to mention she invited me out there after having initially insisted we break up for that semester so she could "get the MOST out of her time abroad"
Afterwards, cuddling in bed, he talked about wanting to drop out of his graduate program. He was impressed with my argument against it, and tried to compliment me with, "I think you're right. My mom said the same thing." He was 26 and I was 42, and that was the last time I ever slept with a younger man.
I love the point about self-definition vs. reality. Especially because then I started thinking about eating nachos. But yeah! Good points, for sure.
You guys, this was the most beautiful collection of "holy shit" I've read in awhile. It makes me want to start a vigilante Social Skills Enforcement Task Force. Thanks, readers, for sharing!
It's a 2-way tie between Dumbest Thing a Man Has Ever Told Me:
1. My then-boyfriend kept trying to stick his hand down my pants when I just wanted to sleep. After batting him away for the third time, he says, "What? I thought your pussy was like a buffet, and I could just keep coming back for more."
2. A different ex-boyfriend and I had just finished having sex, when he started to cry. At first I thought it was because he was feeling sentimental and the Damien Rice was getting to him or something, until he wiped away a tear and declared, "You just remind me of my mom so much some time." We were still naked. We broke up the next week.
oh. my. god to both!!!
I am a woman with a high libido, and I'm also very kinky as well. This has frequently come up in past relationships as a negative - that he's turned off by the fact that I'm usually in the mood, because then he "doesn't have to work for it" and/or he feels pressure to be horny all the time - which makes him less horny, and/or he thinks it makes me slutty, and/or...etc. Sometimes a guy will say he likes it, but then withdraw sexually over time. Some guys harp more on the kinkiness than the libido. Over time, it's made me pretty anxious about myself sexually, but recently I met someone who praises the heavens for my libido and my kinkiness every time we see each other, and it's made me realize that those other guys were just wrong for me, and the sexual incompatibility was likely just one piece of it.
Wow - OK, I have two entries for the worst thing a partner's ever said to me. Both from the same guy and both directly after sex:
- I wish I was more attracted to you.
- I wonder if I would feel more if you lost some weight.
And I spent nearly SEVEN YEARS of my life with this man. Oh, and then luckily got some therapy for my low self-esteem. Whew.
I was lying in orgasmic bliss when a guy told me "well THAT took forever". At the time I wanted to cry out of anger, but now I wish I just went home.
Oh and the guy I'm currently screwing keeps asking me if his is the best #@$# I've ever seen. It is one of the nicest, if not THE nicest, but it takes away when I have to keep saying "yes................"
re: being a virgin...
Go out. Get this book: https://www.amazon.com/Faking-It-Elisa-Lorello/dp/B0064X8EDM/ref=sr_1_1?i...
No- I'm not Elisa Lorello. ;) I came across this book while (let's be honest) looking for smut to read on my Kindle. The price was right, I think it was about a buck, and the premise promised what I was looking for.
I was so wrong!
This isn't a smut book but rather a book about discovery. I teach human sexuality classes and I wish I could have every one of my students read this when they're ready for it. Devin's gentle teaching methods, and what he says to Andi to help her discover herself are what every relationship should have. Andi's broken self is the self of everyone who's ever let someone else's ideas become poisonous. The process these two injured people go through is great to read.
Is it a little formulaic? Yep. But that's ok.
ANYWAY- I'm not going to do many spoilers, but the gist is that Andi is a virgin in her mid-30s. She's mortified by it, but can't figure out how to NOT be a virgin. Devin helps her, but not necessarily IN THAT WAY.
about the virginity thing: i was also an "old" virgin at 21. i didn't want to just lose my virginity, i wanted it to be special, or at least to feel right. so, one night at a party i ran into an ex-boyfriend with whom i'd had a short relationship. we started fooling around and i decided that the moment was right. just before he took out the condom i told him that i was a virgin. he was surprised but extremely flattered, and excited about the idea of taking my virginity away. he was gentle, kind and loving and the whole experience was emotionally marvelous (albeit a bit physically painful but that goes with the territory). so my advice to you, losing it, is to find someone that you really like and who really likes you, and when the moment is right you'll just know. the most important thing is that it feels right to you, that you feel ready for it. a guy who freaks out about it is not emotionally strong and wouldn't be a good partner, in or out of bed.
I had my fiancee (a fiancee who had begged for me to propose for 9 months before I did so because I was pretty sure she wasn't ready for marriage) tell me "I just don't think I am attracted to you anymore" maybe a week after I had given her a ring. A few weeks later she ended up cheating on me with some multi-millionaire's son. They are married now.
I ended up with a much better woman anyway so no loss.
Now you say something