Dating Advice From . . . Engineers by Steph Auteri Q. For optimal functionality, what should go into a first-date emergency kit? A. Fine wine, road flares, a snake-bite kit and Ghirardelli chocolates.
Jill Soloway is a writer and co-executive producer of HBO's Six Feet Under.
Neil LaBute is writer/director of the films In the Company of Men, Nurse Betty and the recent plays The Shape of Things and Fat Pig.
Christine Vachon has produced some of the most notable independent films of the past decade, including Kids, Safe, Happiness, Far From Heaven and Boys Don't Cry.
Ted Hope has also produced some of the best indie movies of the era, including Flirt, The Ice Storm, In the Bedroom, A Dirty Shame and The Door in the Floor.
Miranda July is a filmmaker whose upcoming debut, Me and You and Everyone We Know, was hailed at Sundance 2005 for its fresh approach to sexuality.
Does the government really have any influence over the depiction of adult relationships in film? Will another four years of Bush have a chilling effect on the industry?
JILL SOLOWAY Repressive government makes for better art. If Scorsese could make Taxi Driver when Nixon was in office, I should be able to get something good going while Bush is in office. When our government represents the interests of the artists, the artists get complacent. I have no idea if this is true or not but I really like to believe it. The morning after the election, whenever I talked to friends who were crying, I said, "good for the artists, good for the artists."
NEIL LABUTE It's probably too early to tell what effect this administration will have on film. One thing that can safely be said, if it sells, Hollywood likes it. That said, it doesn't feel as if the current administration is particularly interested in the truth, no matter what form it takes, so in that sense they should love movies.
CHRISTINE VACHON The climate is affected by whoever's in power, but it becomes more interesting because there's a reaction against it, too. It's too easy to say that now we have to make more conservative movies. There's a sense that the country is moving more to the right, but on the other hand I got home from the set last night and turned on the TV, and there were seven back-to-back episodes of Will & Grace.
TED HOPE I think it's hard to fully separate government from the whole economic system — people writing and directing and creating for what they perceive as the market. There's always going to be a level of self-censorship that exists: people worry, what will be the reaction?
"Aren't relationship movies the most boring things in the world? I don't need to see a marriage break up — I can break up my own!"
Some of that is directly releated to that proposed Child Online Protection Law of 1998, which had a provision stating that you could not have adults depicting underage children depicting sex. I get asked that all the time: "Can I have somebody over the age of eighteen playing somebody who's under the age of eighteen who's engaged in a sexual relationship?" That law never passed, but it's still rattling around in people's brains.
One of the problems in the film industry is that the MPAA rates for the cultural mores of the time, but film lags behind culture by nine months or a year. Bond companies insure films for a specific rating, and they're basing it on where they know things to be, not nine months down the road.
I think we have a government that seems very much about polarizing people who take a different viewpoint. While that goes down, I think there's a large segment of the creative community which will always, unfortunately, self-censor. Another segment will try to demand that there be a dialogue about these issues. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to create a distribution and marketing apparatus that allows those voices equal audience.
MIRANDA JULY In making my film, I did have some experience that I realized had to do with our government. I was dealing with the child labor board, and I realized, in talking to them, that the other movies I was citing were not good examples, because they were made earlier, with a different set of rules. It seemed like the board had gotten way more conservative. I thought, "Wow, this is really affecting me — I'm having to change words here." It's not even being unable to represent visually that children are performing some sort of sex act — it's that they can't say they're going to. There's a scene in my film where the characters are looking at these dirty signs in a window. Even though the actors had read everything in those signs because it's in their scripts, we had to post fake dirty signs on the set, so their eyes would not have to look upon those words. As a writer, it makes me think about how scary language is to people.
Is indie film becoming more honest about relationships? What is necessary to make them more honest?
CHRISTINE VACHON In some ways, aren't relationship movies the most boring things in the world? I don't need to see a marriage break up, I can break up my own! I find those quiet, character-driven relationship dramas stultifying. When I see a lot of young directors making those kind of movies, my reaction is, John Cassavetes has a lot to answer for.
JILL SOLOWAY I am constantly frustrated by the lack of characters to whom I can attach as a viewer who also happens to be a woman who thinks and speaks. Two movies I enjoyed over the past two years, Lost in Translation and Sideways, still left me cold as a woman. I was a willing admirer of Scarlett Johansson's fabulous underwear and puffy lips, but all of her power came from skulking around Tokyo looking at her shoes. The poor girl never spoke above a whisper. Sideways was fun, but my only way in was through the male characters. The Virgina Madsen character never showed a clue as to why she liked that short dumpy Miles. Yet another Male Fantasy — the creamy, wispy, waspy blonde beauty who simply Likes You Without Question. Ugh.
NEIL LABUTE It's hard to be honest, for any number of reasons. It's also blessedly simple. You just have to be strong enough to do it. If there are subjects that remain taboo or off-putting or, most damaging of all, not lucrative, then true honesty will have to take a back seat. I think some films are trying to be honest about various relationships, but whenever commerce rears its ugly head — what is the market for this film? — honesty gets the boot.
TED HOPE First, let's look at the phrase "indie film industry," which really describes only the most mainstream aspects of indie film. Only ten percent of indie films that are made make it to a general audience. That represents a four percent market share of the film industry overall. You end up breaking that specialized category into two groups, which are "old pros" and "new kids on the block."
"I would love nothing more than to see real real sex in movies instead of the lustrous, glowing orchestrations we're used to."
Those who have the good fortune of doing a second film, and therefore sliding into auteur status, get to keep on making movies. Everyone else falls out. The old guard — which is same as the old-boy network; it's pretty much made up of white males — get to mature in their craft and get to certain levels of truth. In the past year, Sideways,Eternal Sunshine,21 Grams and Kinsey go to levels of truth that I found really interesting.
The stuff that is ultimately new, that hasn't been explored before, usually comes from new kids on the block. So much of that segment has become sensation-based. Directors are trying to conceive of these films as, "How do I differentiate myself in the marketplace?" People don't write so much from the heart.
So it's rare that I find American movies which get to the true nature of day-to-day adult relationships, and new aspects. I have to see films from Asia or Europe to explore that. Unfortunately, American audiences have little access to that segment of cinema.
MIRANDA JULY I think indie film is about people making movies while feeling they're allowed to say what they want to in a very specific way. Of course, it still has to be excellent for it to be meaningful. But in terms of women and gay people and the different kinds of relationships you see up there — that's changed a lot.
What is the future of the sex scene? Do you foresee more filmmakers utilizing real sex, as Michael Winterbottom did in the upcoming Nine Songs? And is that necessary — how much sex do we need to see?
JILL SOLOWAY I was at work yesterday at Six Feet Under, and I was sitting with the post producer as we tried to come up with some great sex scenes for Nate to be watching on televison. I had to go all the way back to Last Tango and Body Heat. I wracked my brain, and there was nothing there, no images of any great scenes. This was disconcerting.
Real sex is so awkward, I would love nothing more than to see real real sex in movies instead of the lustrous, glowing orchestrations we're used to — the hand tracing the belly muscles on the perfect body, the arching backs and glossy moans. Those are the images that messed with me for years when, as a young woman, all I knew to do in sex was to imitate those poses. It would also be nice if some of the people in the movies didn't look so good. I'm tired of all those gigantic white teeth.
NEIL LABUTE Sex, like most things, is a pretty subjective topic — who can say how much is harmful, good, wonderful? It's one of those things that fall in the category of "I know it when I see it." Does it help if there is real sex on the screen in a fictional film? I suppose it's a tantalizing prospect — I've seen that actor have real sex now! — but I'm not convinced it makes the experience any richer. The entire foundation of cinema is built on a lie, a convincing lie that makes us open to the truth, or some kind of gathered truth. What is necessary is the freedom to create as one sees fit.
CHRISTINE VACHON There's sex and then there's sexy. We all know some of the sexiest moments we've seen on film are just about a glance. There's a way to smolder on celluloid without a hint of genitalia. I have to refer to A Dirty Shame — people didn't go see it, and I
"I don't know if people actually want to actually see sex. The sexual act is not sexy, unless you're giving or receiving."
don't know why. It was a funny movie. I don't know if it was too explicit or what. I don't know if people really want to actually see sex. The sexual act itself is not sexy, unless you're on the giving or receiving end. Watching it happen is a little anticlimactic. In movies, it's all about foreplay.
TED HOPE I think that first we'll see more directors looking at multiple release platforms. A more mainstream version of a film will go out under a theatrical platform, and additional content will be available in an alternate version on DVD. I certainly applaud filmmakers who are committed to the purism of one form of their film being accessible to all. At the same time, I think there's something really interesting about having multiple ways to release a film and to give people unique experiences based on something unfolding through these different platforms: what's available on a website, what's available on DVD.
People are always in love with pushing boundaries. If they go at it, I hope they go at it with the desire to reach a new level of honesty, something beyond sensation. I certainly expect there will be more to the question: how do we get access to see this when filmmakers who've been given the opportunity to improve their craft fear government and marketing?
MIRANDA JULY I think it has to do with the filmmaker. John Cameron Mitchell wants to have real sex in his next movie. Knowing him — his reasons are so specific — it seems it would be a natural part of his palette. He should be free to do that with people he wants. I think real sex in film is fine, as long as it's part of a completely personal vision, and not a trend that dictates "it's not sexy unless it's really sex." Well, actually, I don’t know if there's anything inherently bad about that. It's just less interesting.
How do you define an indie film? Does the distinction matter anymore?
JILL SOLOWAY I don't think it matters at all. Whoever you can get to pay for your film, you get. However hard you have to fight to keep your vision, you have to fight. I've seen people with huge studio budgets who have tons of control based on the sheer will of their personality, and people with $125,000 who are people pleasers and can't get their vision across.
NEIL LABUTE The first film I made, In the Company of Men, was made on a small budget in Indiana and had no outside influence on its creation until it was screened at Sundance. Does that make it independent? I suppose so. It still needed bigger organizations to bring it into the world of moviegoers in general. Nothing was changed along the way, so the original product remained pure, but does a collaboration at even a distributive level suggest independence or dependence? I don't really know. All I know is I enjoy a good film, studio or otherwise. I don't really give a shit how it was made,
"I think a lot of filmmakers get indie-seeming financing but have been required to use a star. There's something very unindependent about that."
financed, sold, etc. I want to enjoy the experience as a moviegoer; as an artist, it's a different game, but often only in how the rules vary from situation to situation. "Indie" seems to exist somewhere in the ether now, a kind of spiritual sense of cinema, but I'm less and less sure of what it means in practical terms.
CHRISTINE VACHON I don’t really know how to define it these days. Right now, I'm shooting a movie for Warner Independent, which as far as I'm concerned is an oxymoron. Independent of what? On the other hand, I did an interview years ago with a big Hollywood producer named Larry Gordon, and he said "I always thought an indie was a movie that you took to market to sell." That's still the best definition I've heard.
TED HOPE If you want to really talk independent, you could say people who work for themselves and make films for themselves as opposed to making them for marketplace demand. I think you can continue to stratify the definition of indie film, but I think in some ways it's helpful to lump it together. There's so much different work going on, and some real crisis in the complete evaporation of government support for the arts, and trying to encourage a diverse number of voices and give audience access — it's really the crystallization of indie industry into market demand. In short, forget about indie film being dead — it hasn't been born.
MIRANDA JULY I think an indie film is where a director gets to do what they want to do. I've heard people talk a lot about collateral — "when you want to make a film, you have to have collateral." Well, I think my script should be the collateral. I think there are a lot of cases where filmmakers get indie-seeming financing but have been required to use a star. There's something very unindependent about that.
Are audiences getting dumber or smarter about cinematic sex?
JILL SOLOWAY Probably dumber. It's all so depressing. People like answers in their films, which is why they voted for Bush — he's an answer. He has the answers. He's not a question, doesn't wish to be questioned. I just think we have a very different sort of audience member, based on the way most of us spend all day long driving our little computer monitors around the cyberuniverse. Our brains are changing. We point and click and have to think fast. I bet the experience of what I asked for previously — sitting in a movie theater watching a brilliantly written, awkward sex scene unfold between ugly people on a giant screen — would be excruciating for most people. I would probably be the only person in the audience.
NEIL LABUTE Audiences on the whole don't seem to mind sex, yet they don't love to hear it discussed. Your Friends and Neighbors made more people uncomfortable in its verbal depiction of sexuality than in any of its brief flashes of flesh or physical activity. Most audiences have no real problem with honest depictions of sexuality as long as they seem integrated into the story, as opposed to jammed in as prurient filler. Not that prurient filler doesn't have its place! That's what Cinemax is for.
CHRISTINE VACHON It's hard to simply say that the results of the last election and the universal terror that gay marriage seems to strike into the hearts of the average American indicates that people are getting less sophisticated. Because look at the year we've had — Sideways, Kinsey. I think it was actually an interesting, intelligent year in movies.
TED HOPE I think it's impossible to make a generalization. There's the hardcore cineaste who knows film history and its rules, and then there are are those who are far more ignorant and just want sensation. It's hard to say what speaks to the largest number. I think we've all benefited from superior technology in terms of
"Napoleon Dynamite reminded me that sometimes you just need to make something instead of trying to get the script perfect."
DVD and the new generation of bigger, clearer, sharper television screens. People have been able to experience films that they might be uncomfortable to see in public, either because the film is challenging or because of the specific content. They're able to try on these films in the privacy of their own homes.
I think that's directly related to why we've been able to make films as challenging as Eternal Sunshine or 21 Grams or Door in the Floor. The industry perceives a level of maturation among viewers: people will actually respond to a nonlinear story or the direct address of sexual content. But I wouldn't say you have an increased level of sophistication and intelligence about sex in film overall, because the audience is always changing.
MIRANDA JULY I don’t know about sex in film specifically. Kids are now growing up faster, largely because of the internet. They can experience a world that's much larger and more diverse than their parents' world before they leave home. I don't know what that means, but I think about it lot. What kind of person is that, who doesn’t feel so alone, if they're marginalized in some way, but know there are all these people who share that? That's an exciting level of sophistication. I hope those audiences will move past the stage of needing to being delighted, and will want other things.
What was the best film you saw this year?
JILL SOLOWAYNapoleon Dynamite. My son, my boyfriend and I laughed from beginning to end. Then my boyfriend's teenage daughter came to visit, and we all watched it on video and laughed from beginning to end. We span four generations and share the exact same funny bone. Everything that was great about it could never have been communicated by the script. The writers/directors had a vision and made it real, and it was beautiful. It reminded me that sometimes you just need to make something instead of trying to get the script perfect.
NEIL LABUTEHead On is a Turkish film that was so direct and visceral and alive. It made all other stories, love stories in particular, pale in comparison. It was filled with sexuality, humor, brutality and heartbreak, and has two lead performances that make domestic awards show a bit of a joke — if this kind of work isn't hailed, then what's the point of handing out little statues and certificates? It should be required viewing for anybody who ever thought life was tough.
CHRISTINE VACHONVera Drake was pretty awesome. And then at Sundance, The Squid and the Whale is a so-called relationship movie that manages to transcend the genre. And Miranda July's film managed to be shocking and at the same time it was the most completely invigorating and provocative movie I've seen since Happiness, which I produced. She managed to deal with sexuality in a way I've never seen before; it was utterly fascinating.
MIRANDA JULYOasis is a Korean movie about this guy and his romantic relationship with a woman who's in a wheelchair — she can't talk and doesn't have control over her limbs. But she' s played by someone who doesn't have that disability, and in moments she just turns into a normal girl. At first, you're like, "Is this okay? Is this PC?" And then you realize it's actually so adroit in showing that, inside, she feels like this normal pretty girl when she gets to be with this boy, and the fact that she's drooling on the floor doesn't mean she doesn’t want to flirt and have sex. In terms of sex and relationships, there's some really intense stuff in there.
TED HOPE I got completely charged by seeing a film that will debut on HBO next month called Sometimes in April, which is a film about Rwandan genocide. It was a real example of political filmmaking that was told in completely engaging yet still challenging way — something that was emotional but allowed you to see the different sides of an issue. That film made it clear that the people who perpetrated that horrible act came from a human perspective, and the people who allowed it to happen — namely Western media and Western government — were equally responsible. It's so hard to make a film like that in today's industry.
, featuring curious yet marvelous infusions of cucumber and rose petal.
