Florida Group Wants To Ban Birth Control... No, Really...
By Brian FairbanksSeptember 15th, 2009, 11:25 amComments (45)
We've been warning you for years that the next step in the abortion movement is to outlaw all forms of birth control. On Friday, a group in Florida made their first move in a long-term campaign that will do just that.
The Orlando Sentinel has the scoop:
The religion-infused movement, called "Personhood Florida," would define conception in Florida's constitution at the "biological beginnings," supporters said -- when the sperm meets the egg. The group filed its amendment today but the exact ballot language is still being worked out, said Secretary of State Spokeswoman Jennifer Krell-Davis.
The amendment seeks to outlaw all abortions, even in cases of rape and incest. Also criminalized: the morning-after pill and oral contraceptives taken by women, known as the pill.
Supporters say they're pushing the personhood amendment not only in Florida, but in a dozen other states.
At a press conference in Tallahassee, speakers blamed abortion for the financial insolvency of Social Security and the bankruptcy of American auto manufacturers, citing the millions of terminated pregnancies since Roe. v. Wade as costing the nation citizens and customers.
(Side note: we had no idea that a few million terminated pregnancies over almost four decades is the reason three hundred million other people have stopped buying, uh, cars.)
Luckily, they need more than 600,000 signatures in the next five months to get the measure on the ballot for 2010. Perhaps this is the latest strategy to rile up right-wingers and get them to the polls, a la gay marriage in '04? In any case, it's a disturbing trend...
Commentarium (45 Comments)
60-80 percent of fertilized eggs fail to attach to the uterus. Next they will want to ban your period.
It is not disturbing and it is not a trend. Its called differing viewpoints, you can find them in thriving democracies. Besides if you knew your law you would know that Griswold v. Connecticut provides for access to contraception, state constitutions not withstanding.
no, it's not a differing viewpoint. it's idiocy. florida is an unimpressive place. i've talked to people there and regretted it.
Different viewpoints are ok. Forcing your views on others is not.
All flaws of the United States aside, there are still a lot more people around the world clamoring to get in, rather than get out. So don't go blaming abortion for a lack of workers/consumers. The truth is, we can have as many people as we want and can provide jobs for. If you start with the premise that we have too few people to support Social Security/the automobile industry (a dubious premise, but I'm going with their argument), then the blame is on our immigration policy.
So refusing to teach a public sexual morality in school and leaving the rest of us to deal with rampant disease, a culture that celebrates the most whorish depravity as 'enlightened feminism" and the thousands of failed marriages and sexual dysfunction that go along with such practices is not to force anything on anybody I suppose.
*...leaving the rest of us to deal with rampant disease, a culture that celebrates the most whorish depravity...and the thousands of failed marriages and sexual dysfunction that go along with such practices...*
Um, what are you talking about? Do YOU even know or have you just left your mouth idling while your brain goes into the store for smokes?
Yes I know! Do you? Did you forget that not 20 years ago the gay population of the US inflicted a deadly epidemic disease on themselves by way of their own sexual immorality, ahem, excuse me 'promiscuity'. Do we need to look any farther than publications like Hooksexup to see that what is presented as 'enlightened feminism' is actually, largely, whorish behavior that treats men like billfolds and stands as a real impediment to the realization of human joy. (And, yes, men have depraved attitudes that are different, though no better) Shall we pretend not to notice that when we prioritize the adolescent horniness as a feature of a healthy sexual relationship, what we get is dissatisfaction at both the normal aging process and our inability to get novelty from monogamy? But maybe you're right, I am brain dead and the problem is just that we don't have enough sexual 'choice' or 'access' in our culture and so the real problem must lie in the repressed hearts of religious bigots who hate sex and never get any. How about admitting that our sexual culture, like popular entertainment, is a cesspool catering to the lowest common denominator. And while many choose to ignore this, some fellow Americans are making futile and, granted, somewhat authoritarian attempts to reverse this while everyone else stands around cheer-leading the growing perversity.
Wow B, you're all over the place. Too many points to debate, but I'll just say that YOUR right to teach YOUR idea of sexual morality in your home is not being banned. Being able to have access to multiple methods of birth control allows for differing viewpoints in how best to deal with sexual habits and family planning.
Billfolds?
Who says "billfolds?"
I suspect we have a non-American telling Americans what to do with their sex lives. How curious. Either that or my grandpa is reading Hooksexup again.
Anon, Fuck you you pinko nancy! American enough for ya? At least it is obvious that you are an American in your smug dismissal of the foreigner. How enlightened of you!
kyran - You are right it is much too much to think about or even discuss. Some things are better left unsaid. But, and forgive me for violating the principles I just espoused, it is far from obvious that a greater amount of choice is the best way to deal with sexual habits and family planning. I think you fail to realize that making large amounts of choice available is a tacit way of refusing to endorse or acknowledge community standards. Moreover the presence of a plethora of choices makes it harder to treat those standards as something to be taken seriously. Indeed it is hard for a parent to compete for influence against well funded parts of our culture such as MTV, the mainstreaming of pornography and the sexualization of youth. Now that might just be the price one pays for living in a democracy, one doesn't get listened to because those selling titillation speak in louder and more spell-binding tones. But if that is true, than I suppose you should acknowledge that kind of rampant choice that goes along with those cultural forces doesn't look like even a promising, much less 'the best', way to deal with 'sexual habits' (whatever they are) or family planning.
Any second now and B's aneurysm will go off. Seriously, it'll be like a champagne cork. Wait for it, wait for it . . .
Dear B, I think you may have accidentally stepped into the wrong part of the Internet. This is 'Hooksexup', and it's in the 21st century- we're sex-positive and liberal. The appropriate section of the internet that you're looking for is over there, on the right... all the way over, almost there, no- a little further. Yes, now you've got it, the faaaaaar right. Thank you for coming, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Yours
C
HAHAHA
I know where I am. I thought liberals enjoyed new ideas from intelligent people. I didn't realize you were constructing an echo chamber of your own. But I see you felt the need to stereotype and dismiss me as quickly as possible. I must be a right wing religious conservative to have even empathy for the group in question (I'm neither). I must be incapable of enjoying sex and angry to have these views - you people are a disappointment.
"I think you fail to realize that making large amounts of choice available is a tacit way of refusing to endorse or acknowledge community standards. Moreover the presence of a plethora of choices makes it harder to treat those standards as something to be taken seriously."
This sounds like it might be a pro-universal health care argument. Rather than "let the individual decide" the government will tell us what to do, right? Isn't that what the Republicans are telling us? No? Really?
Now I'm confused.
M, And it seems to be catching - I have no idea what you are talking about either!
To me, B's phraseology screams "English". Calling someone a "nancy" is a bit of a giveaway if you're trying to pass yourself off as American, B. The only riposte I have for you is that I hope you or someone close to doesn't get that terrible disease the gays "inflicted on themselves". It's not as if straight people catch it after all...
1. Not excited about Florida vacations anymore. Where can I take my girlfriend (to whom I am not wed) and have sex on the beach without worrying that I'm making her an unwed mother or a felon?
2. B, in law school, I heard a lot of arguments following the general structure of your...statements. They are hard to follow, tend to be incendiary, and are often more about personal feelings than anything fact based. That makes it hard to respond in a polite, rational manner without dismissing them out of turn. On behalf of my fellow liberals, I'm sorry you're not swaying the people here. I know a little bit of my law, and I know that imposing community standards on an entire state is unlikely to be viable, particularly since we are not, last time i checked, actually supposed to be ruled by a christian majority (particularly where there isn't a christian majority holding the same moral values). it's reasonable, i think, to want to fight to prevent the criminalization of something that has been made legal.
3. i always find contraception debates interesting. on the one hand, the morality argument seems hinged on the idea that marriage makes sexual impulses pure, so long as everybody is over 18. on the other hand, the desire to protect children from "adult culture" in its various forms is centered around the idea that biological maturity before an arbitrarily chosen age is divorceable from attaining mental maturity, clarity, or an ability to make ones own decisions.
I think Personhood Florida's collective opinions would change rather quickly if one of their women was raped and impregnated.
Wat-
Here's the sad part, I don't think it would change their minds at all.
Anyone read Freakonomics? The drop in crime in the 90s could be attributable to Roe v. Wade. Less unwanted kids equals less crime.
"So refusing to teach a public sexual morality in school and leaving the rest of us to deal with rampant disease, a culture that celebrates the most whorish depravity as ‘enlightened feminism” and the thousands of failed marriages and sexual dysfunction that go along with such practices is not to force anything on anybody I suppose."
How exactly are you, personally, forced to deal with "rampant disease" or "thousands of failed marriages." Or do you simply mean having to think about them at all? For one thing, there are millions of failed marriages, probably tens of millions, not just thousands. And each would have failed for its own reasons: if your marriage falls apart, it has nothing to do with the sort of sex your neighbors are having. It most certainly has nothing to do with what your neighbors' kids are being taught in school. Unless you've been humping your neighbor's daughter, who gave you syphillis because her abstinence-only school didn't teach her proper use of condoms.
"...making large amounts of choice available is a tacit way of refusing to endorse or acknowledge community standards. Moreover the presence of a plethora of choices makes it harder to treat those standards as something to be taken seriously."
Ummm... why do there have to be 'community standards' when it comes to sex and procreation? Just because you don't want to do something yourself, why is it necessary to demand that the government prevent anyone else from doing it either? Seems to me that individual standards will keep civilization humming along just fine, thank you.
"...when we prioritize the adolescent horniness as a feature of a healthy sexual relationship, what we get is dissatisfaction at both the normal aging process and our inability to get novelty from monogamy?"
It seems to me that "adolescent horniness" is just about as natural a phenomenon as one can find. Kids grow into adolescence, and then they become horny. No outside influences make them that way; it's simply part of the process. Sure, if left completely on their own to try to figure out what their own hormones are telling them, as well as process all the various pro-sex and anti-sex messages they get from society, teens are likely to end up having to deal with pregnancy, diseases, and broken hearts. But with good parents/adults offering love and good advice (as opposed to blanket ultimatae) teens are given a chance to make good decisions - and make it to age 20 without an infant, STD, or drug addiction to deal with. And yes, it is possible to accomplish that and still have some fun (and sex) along the way.
Also, plenty of people are perfectly happy in monogamous relationships, without the need of the government telling them that exploring any other option could land them in jail.
"I thought liberals enjoyed new ideas from intelligent people."
I love hearing new ideas from intelligent people. But old, recycled ideas are all I see being argued here. Plenty of intelligent people have been opponents of freedom thoughout history. Luckily, for the past thousand years or so, they've been (mostly) outnumbered by intelligent people who are champions of freedom.
Glory Alleluia, praise the Lord. However, this law does not go far enough to please those of us who believe in "Traditional Marriage". We need to outlaw divorce in the great state of Florida also. Hence, all would obey the word of the Lord and the word of the Bible (King James version of course, not that heathen version): "What the great Lord put together, let no man put asunder" I think asunder means divorce, but I'm not sure, any way, outlaw divorce and Save America... I want my country back...............................
Well then the kind of country you want is a Christian version of Iran. Praise god and please go away.
I wonder if these are the same people who are trying to shut down Philadelphia's public libraries? After all, there's too much damn liberalism and individual thought and information about... sex... in those damn libraries...
Jeez, I think you're all a bunch of fucking idiots. But thanks again for reminding me why I stopped hanging around religious nuts and smarmy liberal scumbags altogether.
Yaz has been linked to a number of adverse medical events such as stroke and heart attack. This site has some good information on the issue: https://www.yaz-may-cause-strokes.com/
No need for anyone to start slandering the entire state of Florida. I lived there for 2 years and escaped, un-tortured and unsaved with easily obtained baby prevention pills in hand.
This is what is wrong with this world. Fucking religious douchbags. What next, banning womens periods?LOL. I mean..fuck, lol. Banning birth control? This is the same shit with those fuckers who hate abortions. What next, deciding when people have sex and get babies? Idiocy and ignorance will exist for a long time, but I had hoped with all the modern technology these religious / moral tards could come to their senses. Just for lulz, I'm going to ruin 1/2 of you guys worlds..
1) There is no santa
2) There is no tooth fairy
3) There is no god
4) There is no heaven and hell
5) There is no satan
6) Religion is the substance that fuels our ignorance-ridden lives.
Thanks to these religious nuts women have to do back-door unhealthy abortions, from not medically trained doctors, and now pills?lol..
Imo, All the women should go kill every politician and christian in florida xD
Oh, come on now, kerriestella... it's just too easy to slander Florida.
I'm a college student in florida and i'm embarrassed every time i go to the student health center i get asked 5 times if i'm pregnant and unfailingly get tested for the clap... never been pregnant never had the clap.
Hcl summed it up so well, it bears repeating: less unwanted kids equals less crime.
Regarding B: It's not that liberal intellectuals stick their fingers in their ears every time they hear a different viewpoint, we just know bullshit when we see it. A gay disease? We no longer live in the eighties, from whence came this falsehood? Whorish behavior leading to failed marriage and sexual dysfunction? Red states have higher divorce rates, teen birthrates, and pornography consumption.
https://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2009/06/27/opinion/20090627blowchart.html
Dressing your arguments in good language does not make them any less wrong.
Putting forward a viewpoint is one thing, but what rubbed me the wrong way is the condescending 'go ahead and prove me right' attitude that dripped from it. You're free to have as much or as little sex as you like, but do not ever try to force your views on anyone else, and this goes to both sides of the line.
Here's an example of the desperate actions that can occur when women don't have access to birth control or safe abortions. A woman I know consumed copious amounts of alcohol and drugs in order to miscarry. She gave birth to a child with behavioural difficulties, violent tendencies and a predilection for substance abuse.
Despite the whole prochoice/ abortion debate, the fact of the matter is that some people (like myself) have a medical need to Birth control pills. I have PCOS and the cysts on my ovaries can only be treated with the cocktail of hormones found in Birth Control. Pro- Life activists should actually think about LIFE- one with needs like mine.
Besides, if someone is not ready to be a parent, preventing an egg from ovulating is not destroying a life. it's preventing the possibility of it happening. last I checked, Birth Control had nothing to do with terminating conception. you can't "kill" what isn't there in the first place.
maybe education should preface any motions to affect legislation.
Really? this is actually a topic for debate? As an american you should be given a choice of what you want to do with yourself. Thats why people originally came here was to be free from opression whether it be from religion, government, whatever! And now Right wing morons are trying to impose what they think is "morally viable" please.... DON'T TREAD ON ME!
Personhood? Seriously? As a philosophy major, I take issue with this term on account of what it entails: person is an honorific title applied to beings after they meet certain criteria in order to entitle them with certain rights and liberties. You know what doesn't meet any of those criteria? A fetus. There's no one definitive set of criteria, but in general they are arrived at by asking, "What is it like to be a person?" The answer includes things like language, self-consciousness, the ability to act purposefully toward goals. A fetus is incapable of ANY of that and is therefore not a person. But I doubt that discussion was had with any of the people in this group and if it was, post that shiz!
I think about abortion quite often owing to my affection for the Indian God Krishna and some so called authorities on his life and teachings who oppose abortion, meat eating, insecticide and who knows what else. Oh yeah, sex, although it is considered an erotic God concept the Indians have in Krishna. God as lover.
But thinking of Tim Tebow and his mother about to advocate against abortion during the Superbowl I had to wonder why they don't have the same vehement feelings about war or hunting or meat eating. That is why they aren't more nearly just like the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
Birth Control has long been a sore point in Roman Catholicism, it's laity at large it seems to me, supporting the use of the pill while its Pope and powers taht be oppose. I wonder if Mr. Tebow opposes the pill, too, and if he isn't thinking of having dad in that commercial.
Would condoms be banned as well in this abolition of birth control?
Everyone here is a troll.
Christians are fucking idiots.
I've lived in Tampa, FL, for the past 19 years and I have to say I've been fortunate to have NOT run into anyone with this type of belief. Florida definitely has it's share of religious wingnuts, but I think you'll find the common denominator with this line of thinking is limited post-secondary education. Sex-ed is not taught in Florida schools (not that I'm aware of) or if it is, it's abstinence only - and we all know how well that works. The thought process behind this seems to be if we outlaw birth control then people will not have sex. Mmmm hmmm. Ask your grandparents how well that worked for them.
They will never take away my birth control unless it's from my cold dead hands, so there!
ok i should probably mention this first, i am greek orthodox (basicaly christian)and from australia and yes i know it is not my place to comment on americas/floridas affairs but i will anyway - i just sincerely hope that you all understand that this is MY VIEW and i am in no way forcing you or expect you to agree
here is what i belive
birth control - in my mind the use of condoms/the pill is acceptable, i see no harm in what is at the early stage that the pill and condoms "work" the prevention of "life" being created, i do whoever oppose abortion for the reason that imo after a certain time in wich the pill/condoms canot prevent a birth - the next day or whatever the time limit is for the pill idk - the fetus becomes deemed human, however i do understand the need for in certain circumstances abortion - rape incest etc
sex ed - as a teenager (18) i know... i KNOW that all men (including myself) think about for the most part is sex, wether you may want to think your own child is inocent, there will come a time when he too feels the same - now i am not speaking for women as i am not one myself + i understand that some men dont put such importance on the aim of having sex ( eg i dont think of it as the be all and end all of a relationship - i would much rather be with someone who truly card for me ... but i digress) now in light of that i do not know how u can posibly condone NOT talking to teens about sex, not sure about the culture in america but here yes there are a lot of teens "doing it" but very few... very few do it in an "unsafe" way - and yes this is directed at u B
now the gay issue - again at you B - "gay population of the US inflicted a deadly epidemic disease on themselves by way of their own sexual immorality" now firstly its caled hiv/aids dont try and hide its identity or hide the WELL KNOW PROOF yes PROOF that in the african continent... geus what strait people ALSO contract the disease (for the record i belice that being gay is a choice bla bla bla insert normal religous views BUT i am not about to go to a rally to make people change... because as it is your choice you may do whatever you want...) back to my point.. "straight" people in africa ALSO contract the diesease ... it is not the will of God who in his infinite wisdom wants to "kill off" the gays... who by the way if u do belive in God... as do i... he did technicaly... just sortof... acording to the bible... CREATE US ALL - SO THEN THAT MEANS THEY ARE HIS CHILDREN TO u dum , idiotic piece of shit REMEMBER TO READ THE BIBLE NOT JUST FUCKING LOOK AT THE DAMN PAGES U DICK HEAD
what next ah yes the divorce issue -.... PEOPLE GET DIVORCED... YES IT IS WRONG BUT BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET THE FUCK OVER IT
the decrease in car sales because of increathed birth rates or w/e -.... um is it just me or is america in the middle of a recesion(nnot sure how to spell it) um... is it just me or is the US govt in something like 13 trillion....TRILLION dollars in debt... is it not true that many.. many people have lost their jobs as a result or suffered pay cuts... now... um... with the above evidence... you know the recesion and all.. HOW THE FUCK ARE PEOPLE GONA BUY CARS IF THEY HAVENT GOT THE MONEY FOR IT... insert southpark refference "dum dum dum"
ooooooh and before i forget... i must admit... i do love this... mss palin.. u no the one who could have been vp... advocates abstination as the only form of contraception... well geus what... rofl... her daughter is pregnant...rofl
again... my opinion.. all that crap.. not forcing anyone to change or anything like that... (remember im 18... so im speaking from the point of view of a person who.. if i ilived in florida it would concern... not someone such as yourself who probly wouldnt go within 10ft of any one who shares your beleifes... and those that do.. well you cant realy have sex before mariage or else your a sell out so... realy...)
and i know "B" wont reply but if you could please do arguments are just sooooooooo much fun even with dimwitted people such as yourself...
and oh yeh.. greeks invented democracy. evryone wants to be greek... bla bla bla
I am sure that the next thing they wish to outlaw will be male masterbation because it results in the death of millions of innocent sperm who are in reality tiny little humans with more brains then they have.