Atheist bus ads warring with monotheistic bus ads in Texas
By Ray RahmanDecember 15th, 2010, 1:55 pmComments (75)
There's a battle over the roads in Fort Worth, Texas. But unlike in, say, New York, it's not cyclists versus the combustion engine — down in the Lone Star State, it's atheism versus monotheism.
Oh wait, scratch that — it's almost exactly like it is in, say, New York.
The public buses down in Dallas' twin city are carrying atheist messages like "Millions of people are good without God." The religious are retaliating with their own vehicular ads, ones that carry assurances like “I still love you. — God” and “2.1 billion Christians are good with God.”
To get to the bottom of this, the theologically whiplashed New York Times did that journalism thing that they love doing:
“We want to tell people they are not alone,” said Terry McDonald, the chairman of Metroplex Atheists, part of the Dallas-Fort Worth Coalition of Reason, which paid for the atheist ads. “People don’t realize there are other atheists. All you hear around here is, ‘Where do you go to church?’ ”
The paper then surveyed non-Fort Worth places with experience in the matter. Vandals destroyed similar ads in Detroit, Sacramento, and Tampa, FL, while Des Moines, IA, outright banned atheist ads... for four days, after which they reversed their position.
But Des Moines, IA, ain't Texas, where reaction is far more "forceful" than in the other locales:
The reaction from believers has been harsher than anyone in the nonbeliever’s club expected. Some ministers organized a boycott of the buses, with limited success. Other clergy members are pressing the Fort Worth Transportation Authority to ban all religious advertising on public buses. And a group of local businessmen paid for the van with the Christian message to follow the atheist-messaged buses around town.
The atheists are sticking to their guns, however. “It can be pretty lonely for a nonbeliever at Christmastime around here," the atheist leader guy said. "There is so much religion. We thought, ‘What the heck? Nobody owns December.’ ”
Commentarium (75 Comments)
I still don't understand why anyone thinks a sign on a bus will change a stranger's religion.
It's not about changing somebodies religion. It is about letting people know that it is OK to not believe. Some folks are afraid of being ostracized and ridiculed so they just go along with the rest of the sheep. COME OUT ATHEISTS, COME OUT AND BE HEARD. NO LONGER WILL WE LET THE RELIGIOUS CRAZIES DICTATE THE COURSE OF OUR COUNTRY!
Hang them all. High.
Yeah. Damned christians!
I don't understand why these atheists are doing this. One of the things that I like about being an atheist is that I don't need to preach my sermon to anyone. What a waste of time and resources.
Actually, the idea of paying for God Van to follow the Atheist Bus around town is pretty darn funny.
The atheist organization is not trying to convert anyone. It's pretty damn isolating to be an atheist, especially outside of a major metropolitan area. I've been an atheist since I was 14 or so, and in that time, I've told exactly three people this (my closest friend, my husband, and a now-ex-fiance). Only one of them had a neutral/positive reaction. I live in a fairly liberal college town and still atheists are vilified. I think it's wonderful to have that "you are not alone" message. That said, it would be nice to see everyone's money going toward winter coats for the homeless or some such instead.
Well said Lisa. I second that.
They're both stupid...
Why is so bad to be atheist in USA? I never got that part right. I live in an eastern Orthodox country and nobody cares that I'm an atheist.
Iva: Being and atheist in the USA is considered by many to be no different tan being in Al Quada. We have a noticeable percentage of people that have decided to turn out Nation into a Christian Theocracy and anyone who disbelieves in them is Satan and wants to destroy the Nation. It is called "Christian Identity" and really has very little to do with following the teachings of Jesus and more to do with the feeling of Moral Superiority!
Many of us do not believe this is the true way of Christianity and we try to show we a Christian by our actions and not our words, damnation's and pocketbook!
It's like this in Canada too, sadly. It's a war on liberalism by the neo-con right bible thumpers. Scary.
@ BRO
Did you even read the article? It says why they are doing it right there. This is far from a waste of resources on the atheists part.
The christians messages however? The former misses the point that atheists don't even believe a god exists and the former misses the point of the ads and thinks it s some sort of contest for who can have the most good people.
As someone who just freaking aced their European Government & Politics final (Yes, I'm the snooty college kid who thinks he knows everything), I can say it's probably because of different demographic shifts (assuming that your Eastern Orthodox country is in Europe). Atheism has definitely grown in America, but the vast majority of Americans are religious churchgoers. In Europe, the rates of people who identify as atheists or non-religious have skyrocketed. Church attendance is down among those who identify as religious. With the exception of some immigrant groups, every demographic in Europe has become less religious.
God is dead and man killed her.
Oh yes, this is exactly what Jesus would do.....no, not really.
I guess, in this city at least, all the poor have been fed, clothed, and given shelter. All hate and oppression have been eradicated, the sick and poor cared for, so now they can worry about irrelevant things like this.
"...the vast majority of Americans are religious churchgoers."
Nonsense.
My problem with atheist messages like this is simple: atheist believe there is no god. christians believe there is a god. why would someone who believes in nothing be so preoccupied with convincing others of the same thing? i don't preach about things i don't believe exist. if i did that, i would be pretty busy. the number of things that don't exist is infinite.
you know what? i don't believe in dragons. who's with me? i'm gonna go buy some signs.
Dirk, non-existent dragons don't elect other dragon believers then force their silly laws to control the lives of others who do not share the belief. Where I come from, I can't buy beer on Sunday becasue the church says so, A woman does not have say-so over her own body because the church says so. Presidents are elected because the church says so.
Don't try and drag me into either camp. If there is I hope he/she/it is proud of me. If not. Well, there it is then.
it is lonely not believing. I never had a problem with regilion until I moved to the south and it was everywhere.
it was only like 3 years ago they lifted the blue laws. for the longest time it was against the law to be open on sunday morning. only food and gas places being the exception. Walmart would rope off its general goods sections, talk about insane. It can be so frustrating. I once told a co-worker I didn't believe, its...its hard to explain how you feel when someone literally looks at you like you're scum. the kind of contempt and disgust is hard to discribe. I know I've become rather bitter to religion over the years. I know a lot of people are better off with it, using god as a way to get through life and tough times, there is a lot of good in religion and jesus was a remarkable man. I just hate how so many try and force it down my throat, using the bible to try and justify laws that govern not just my life but the life of so many. (ex. gay marriage being one)
If religion is wrong, then those using it to cope are living a lie. Plain and simple.
Now, it's an academic argument, because no one can prove god does or doesn't exist. However, we certainly can conclude that if all 1,000 religions each claim that they are the only "right" religion, well, at BEST, only one of 'em can be right.
@ Dirk - You miss the point. The signage is not meant to convert anyone, the message is meant to provide some small amount of solace to those are a-religious in places where the religious community is overwhelmingly dominant. It maybe even helps build ties among those without religion. A great many people go to church not just because they believe in god, but because they enjoy the community that church provides -- in fact, the social aspect may very well be a MORE important reason. It isn't a stretch to imagine that atheists might want to find a community with whom they share a philosophical outlook as well.
@ Lou: You can say nonsense if you like, but the fact is that the most reliable information we have suggests that around 4/5ths of the entire country identifies as religious, most of those being Christian.
Show me those stats.
I thought the Christian truck was sweet. At least it espouses a message of love and forgiveness. If only Christians on the whole would hold a more tolerant view of atheism there wouldn't be so much tension between the faithful and the rational.
Even in the midwest, it is hard being an atheist. I told a coworker I was, and he has since told as many people as he could, even though I asked him not to. They now come around to my office and try and preach to me, or otherwise pretend I do not exist. It is a lonely existence.
Welp, this just proves that Atheism is becoming a *commercialized* religion, too (And yes, it is a religion). How's about we all just *GET THE HECK ALONG* and stuff? Religion has no place on a billboard or on a bus or whatever.
Sorry Lou, but the latest Gallup data I found (published May 2010) said that only 16% of Americans don't identify with a specific religion. Some of those 16% are religious or spiritual or something but don't identify with a particular church. So I think it's safe to say that 85-90% of Americans are religious.
Everyone should be entitled to believe what they want as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on others.
THAT'S what I like to hear. No one can prove anyone right or wrong ANYWAYS. Why don't people all just chill and preach TOLERANCE.
Jimbo, I believe you are idiot and laws should be passed making it a crime for you to breed. See not every belief has a place in rational society.
Well, that helped out the conversation a lot.
@Twolane
You sound like a religious person...
Atheism is a religion? REALLY? Well, let's see...
Belief in supernatural beings? Nope.
A distinction between sacred and profane objects? Nope.
Ritual acts focused on sacred objects? Nope.
A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods? Nope.
Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration) which tends to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods? Nope.
Prayer and other forms of communication with gods? Nope.
Has a world view, or a general picture of the world and the place of the individual therein, and contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it? Nope.
A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view? Nope.
A social group bound together by the above? Nope.
So, how does atheism fare? I'm afraid it really carries none of the philosophical baggage common to religion.
I'm makin' popcorn for this one. It's always fun to watch two groups of jackasses go after each other.
Personally, I amuse myself by watchin' the dork making popcorn to watch the two groups of jackasses.
religions are run by tyrants who want you to grow up a mental (and therefore physical) slave for your own happiness and demise. athiests are the enemy of the tyrannical leaders, and sadly not the friend of the enslaved. serve neither and watch them ruin your day. and definitely your sleep. and pump you full of drugs. and whatever else they want...
A man that died 2,000 years ago is going to return and save us all. Yep.
people like power over other people too much.
@Herp - Atheism is not a religion by any conventional definition of the word.
To quote an oft-used and fairly concise explanation, "Atheism is a religion the way 'bald' is a hair color."
you know what im tired of? hearing atheists bitch and whine all the time. December is the time to remember the Savior's birth whether they like it or not..if they don't then they really need to shut up about it and keep their miserable lives to themselves.
Then you know EXACTLY how athiests feel when miserable religitards rain their flawed propaganda upon everyone. So shut up about it and keep your miserable life to yourself. Bitch.
Why yes, Kitty, we wouldn't want to disturb your magic and superstitions. Anyone else you would like to keep in the back of the bus, all quiet and servile?
Several years ago I became an atheist. I rid myself of years of catholic guilt and praying to a non existent entity. I have never felt so free. I am no different than I was before, just happier. All that being said I have no problem with anyone who wants to worship the sun, trees, mother earth or any invisible god or gods, if that makes you happy good for you.
Dear Kitty. I see your Beardy Sky Man and raise you a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Dear Kitty. I see your belief in the Lazarus-like son of a Beardy Sky Man, and raise you a Flying Spaghetti Monster.
I was an atheist for a while. Now I'm a Pagan. It's nice to know the Goddess too.
@HelloKitty - You are aware that there are many holidays during winter besides Christmas? Besides, what do you think atheists are complaining about? I am an atheist, but most of my family is Catholic and I love having Christmas festivities with them. Just because I don't believe the backstory doesn't mean I don't enjoy a party and presents.
Just as many Christians complain that other people judge them based on the psychotic rantings of new-earth hyper-fundamentalists, so you, too, should realize that the VAST majority of atheists are extremely quiet about their philosophical outlook on the world, and would only bring it up at all in a relevant context.
Besides, do you not see any sort of hypocrisy in telling atheists to shut up and calling them "miserable" (aren't Christians supposed to be nice?) while simultaneously spouting lots of dogma about Christmas? Why does the last 2 months of the year belong to you more than anyone else?
why are the christians so darned touchy about their religion ? so some people don't share your beliefs..get over it.
If gawd was real, we would not have this situation :)
Plato-Locke-Hegel-Spencer-Haeckel, the greatest minds of science and philosophy understood that neither they nor their disputants understood the complexities of the universe/god scenario and yet I witness the lesser of intellects elocution as if they were seated at the right hand of god.
People trust their own philosophy and as such, seek out a universe, politic, religion or cause that is in alignment with that thinking. They judge persons of opposite temperament or beliefs as inferior in their thinking and thus are dissatisfied with any alternative view save their own and therefore, they are never open for discussion.
As someone else said, the atheism bus isn't meant to convert anyone. It's more of an affirmation that reason exists in a place where religion is so dominant that it publicly snuffs out alternatives.I would be willing to bet that there are many more non-believers in the Bible Belt than you would think, but it's just that the religious people are just so darn loud about their religion. And yes, one time when this Massachusetts native was in Fort Worth, one of the first questions I was asked was what kind of church I went to (in Massachusetts, no one would ever ask you this question). Being an atheist, I said that I didn't go to church but didn't elaborate and the person who asked the question didn't pursue it, but had the oddest expression as if what I said short-circuited her brain cells. I wonder if people really believe or that they just go to church for the socialization aspect of it.
Enough of the whining, already. I am a believer, no particular denomination. I love God, but find "religion" often silly. I think there's a big difference between the two. Once had Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door on Christmas morning. I invited them in. I asked them about their belief that a given number (I think it's 144,000) of people would go to heaven. The reluctantly agreed. I asked them why they were preaching to me, aren't they afraid I'll take their place? I then offered them cake, and a seat while we opened our gifts. They decided now was not the time to visit, I guess.
Took kids to church from time to time when they were growing up. Son's an atheist, that's his right. I still love and respect him and he respects me. Geez, both sides whine way too much. Be free, dammit. Stop trying to force your views on others. They're both doing the same thing. They both believe they are right.
I know it can be irritating when you are approached by someone intent on "saving your soul". But no more than some salesmen trying to make a hard sell. Tell them to step away peacefully, no other explaination necessary. Then, don't go out and do the same thing with your different viewpoint.
Stop trying to force your views on others. You said it! If we could all just live that way.
@HelloKitty, Winter Solstice, Ramadan, Yule, Christmas, Hanukkah, Saturnalia All celebrations that happen in December. Some have been around BEFORE Christianity. Osiris was buried on Dec 21 in Ancient Egypt. In Ancient Greece, there was Lenaea, the Festival of the Wild Women. Buddhism has Rohatsu on December 8th. The Incas had Inti Raymi. Zoroastrianism (considered to be one of the oldest religions in the world), has Shabe-Yalda. All of these are in December. The Winter Solstice (aka December) is NOT the property of Christianity. Get over yourself.
I am a Christian. I don't see a problem with th Aetheist signs on the bus. So what, some people are good without god and want others to know they are not alone. Ok. I also don't have a problem with the truck following the bus around, other then it's a big waste of resources and maybe it would have been more "christian" to use those resources to feed the hungry. Further, if the aetheists would like to get more positive press, perhaps their group could use the money they are wasting on the buses to do a soup kitchen once a night, showing that you don't have to be religous to do good deads.
Jack: You say "...using the money they are wasting on the buses..." Is it a waste if just one atheist that feels isolated and alone realizes that there are other people like him or her and takes the time to seek these other, like minded people out? Isn't it conceivable that this very thing could make a big difference in someone's life? You call it a waste but who are you to judge? You know, if supposed "Christians" would spend more of their time being "Christ-Like" instead of worrying about what other people are doing then this world would be a much nicer place.
Well, I think the idea of a god van stalking the bus is the most hilarious thing ever. How f'ed up would it be it the god van driver runs someone over?
I think it's wonderful that someone who might feel alone in atheism can have a glimmer of joy by knowing they're not freaks or bad people. As someone who grew up in the bible belt, not Having region was shunned(but what the fuck do I care....weirdos). It would've been nice when I was 16, to see that I wasnt alone. It seems to me that Christians tend to be very angry, very condescending bigots, who want to base their life on making other people feel bad. Assholes
Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby.
It IS isolating to not be a person of faith, and it's utterly incredible that those who comprise the majority feel so threatened by our minority that they have to continue to try to drum their majority privilege loudly over every word we try to say.
Yes, we get it, you believe. That's nice. Now get back to feeding the poor and healing the sick, like you were instructed by your demi-god, and stop trying to shame and silence us.
@Jack: do you honestly think atheists do no good charitable work? The difference is that we don't have an organized banner to hang over the charities in which we do participate. How exactly do you propose that my annual donations to the local food bank be publicized as atheistic deeds of do-goodery?
I don't give to show off that I'm godless. I give, quietly - like most people - because it's the right thing to do.
I'll bet Jesus never hung banners over his good works, attempting to market himself.
Being a 20-something year old in New England, you can get some pretty hostile reactions if you tell people your religious. Around here the Atheists are militant and the Religious people quiet and extra introverted as a group. Guess it just depends on where you live.
I'll be back on here in two hours to explain it to both the atheists and believers, and I'm going to use an argument that neither athiests nor believers will be able to refute: Tautology.
I see no need to celebrate any stupid holiday - regardless of which religion represents. I'm an Atheist and my coworkers hate me - no big deal. They're a bunch of high school drop outs with bastard children from different fathers. The "supervisor" is a dumb sexist old man who hates me for a filing a legitimate harassment complaint against him when he compared unmarried women to strippers (obviously I'm not married). I find that religious people are stupid, lazy and love to spread and start malicious gossip. They let their brats run around like animals and think they have a right to welfare - and are PROUD to be a burden! I live in Texas and it's in the Ignorance Belt (aka bible belt). The vast majority of the people here just don't graduate from high school, go to college, or bother getting married let alone use birth control. They abhor abortion more than personal responsibility! Is it any wonder there are far more stupid poor religious people than sane rational responsible ones? I love to rub it in their face that women have rights and I gladly let someone know they are being sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. How was I raised? Get good grades, work hard, network, don't have children you can't afford, make sure you can support YOURSELF first, and don't let men tell you what to do in a relationship. I apply for other jobs because you can only put up with stupid for so long. In case you haven't realized it yet - I can't stand religious people. It doesn't get much more pathetic than following a bus with a painted van because you're so insecure about your religion you have to harass others with your ignorance. Religion is the reason why so many kill each other and oppress others, there is absolutely nothing good about it. Mother Theresa was a monster who reused needles and denied the poor health care. There was a HOSPITAL nearby that they REFUSED to bring sick people to! Undeniable proof that ignorance kills! That monster is actually considered a saint for rallying AGAINST women's rights!
People attempt to foist their belief systems upon others as a form of self-validation to convince themselves that they "made the right choice". It all goes back to how we evolved in societies of tribes, or groups, and anyone outside the group was not to be easily trusted. Societal groups were homogenous and that breeds security. So everyone has to believe what you believe.
Maybe, just maybe God isn't some white dude that wears a dress and hangs out with 12 other men....
Nothing says "let's start a war" like differing religions!
I love America. Where we have freedom of religion not freedom FROM religion. I am a christian and if the athiest lose their rights we are at risk of our losing our own. I will fight for the rights of everyone to worship (or not) as they please. God did not force me to follow Him. I chose to do so. I will not force anyone to join me. I may encourage and the athiest may discourage me right back. It's the American way, in fact, it's the way of Christ. I love both buses, because it means the America I love still lives on. By the way, those of you who are interested in feeding the hungery and clothing the poor, you can join Operation Santa Claus USPS https://operationsanta.com/operation-santa-claus-usps-2010-locations/ Great for the atheist and the christian giver. Merry Christmas everyone. Remember to just be grateful that you live in a country where you get to talk about what you believe or don't. There are plenty of countries that you would be shot for saying anything counter cultural
Buweiser should hire some truck drivers to follow these people around with signs reading "wtf? I need a beer".
"Other clergy members are pressing the Fort Worth Transportation Authority to ban all religious advertising on public buses."
LOL! The ad on the bus is specifically NON-religious. Pass the ban - it wouldn't apply to the atheist message.
I think the entire thing is funny. I grew up in Dallas as a Jew in a very Christian town. I realized when I was very young that I was an agnostic. Neither of those things were any big deal. As for the buses, Dallas got it right: no religiously themed advertising at all. Nothing pro- or con- any religious belief. It's simple and says proselytizing is a private thing, not something supported by the city.
I don't have a problem with the atheist sign on the bus about being 'good without god'. I just find it laughable that someone thinks it's enough just be good. You have to aim at being a superhero to be anywhere on a normal keel in this society. And the idea that you're not trying to convert people, that you're not preaching to them? Well, atheist, if you are behind this ad or you support it, you ARE preaching, because preaching is public declaration of a viewpoint. Has nothing per se to do with religion. You could be telling folks that the aliens who put us here are coming back to see how the experiment is working out. Bet they'll be disappointed ...
"And a group of local businessmen paid for the van with the Christian message to follow the atheist-messaged buses around town."
Do you need to read anything else but this, to realize how crazy these idiots are? If God is so wonderful, why do you need to pay someone to chase a bus around all day? So. fucking.transparent.