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Reader Feedback on "The LUG in Winter"
Totally in tune with your feelings and without guilt just about resumes how people should feel after *experimentation*, and not shy away from just saying: "Hey, we just had fun. Piss off!"
--cd
06/30 |
I've had serious committed relationships with other women, and I've had serious committed relationships with men. What bothers me most about the LUG and BUG phenomenon, is not that "straight" girls feel a comfortable environment for experimentation, but that my relationship with a woman I love becomes public entertainment if we go anywhere together holding hands. Having been harrassed countless times when we declined to make out publicly, I'm almost tempted to pretend I'm straight. It's not the acceptance that bothers me, it's how aggressive it is.
--CAT
01/26 |
I guess this doesn't happen much on these boards, but I want to say thank you, sam. I wrote those venomous words at a late hour in the night and actually I wasn't sure I believed them even as I was writing them. I think I was upset about something silly completely unrelated and felt like ranting anonymously (one of the many joys of the internet… ;) ) So let me make clear that I am not a close-minded homosexual. That would be the easy way out. But I do feel a bit uneasy about certain women making out in public with each other in certain contexts. I don't think it's because I feel that there's some sort of right that “pure” lesbians have over lesbian (read woman to woman) kisses or sex. Not at all, of course, but because there is something deeply sad about the sexual exploitation of women of which I think many times (not always) LUG and BUG public kisses are a symptom of. Long leap you may think, but hey, I think sexual exploitation/trafficking is a huge problem. I will end here, I know this is oversimplified for the fine minds of Hooksexup (I am not being sarcastic), but before you dismiss my comment as some weird leap of logic, give it a thought or two.
--hm
07/26 |
Thanks for your thoughtful take on girl-on-girl college experimentation. I didn’t have the advantage of having a physical exploration in collage—only fantasy. I was one of those co-eds who began fantasizing about women during her junior year—my female professors mostly. There was a psychology TA whose pointy, braless breasts rubbed twin circles on the chalk board when she attempted to write on the higher portions of the board and had to lean in. I always made sure to sit in the front row and to go to her for “extra help” with my assignments. My Spanish instructor was a gorgeous woman who looked like a zaftig Andy McDowell and I was so smitten with her that I anonymously sent her a Valentine’s Day card telling her how beautiful she was. The next week, she looked around the class at all the GUYS and offered thanks to her secret admirer…in Espanol, of course. Part of me was miffed and the other amused. I also had a best friend who, in retrospect may well have been my girlfriend, except that we never had sex or even kissed, though there had been many close calls. She was the butch to my femme. She fixed my car and I fixed her hair, and we were inseparable for our last year in college. She even found me an apartment a few blocks away from her so that we could “hang all the time.” We used to drive an hour from Athens, GA to Atlanta to a gay bar when we were in the mood to dance because, in her words, “No creepy guys are going to try to pick us up.” One night, a guy DID try to pick us up—he was relentless, in fact, probably a bisexual or straight man with a thing for girl-on-girl action. He followed us around all night and we were desperate to get rid of him, so I told him, “Dude, give it a rest. We’re not interested, okay? We’re lesbians.” My friend freaked out and demanded that we leave the club immediately. She drove an hour in silence back to Athens and I things were never the same. We stopped seeing each other—her choice—and she took up with a really, really butch woman with whom she created the same pattern with—extreme closeness then complete abandonment. Then I graduated and could no longer observe her patterns. Years later, I looked her up thinking perhaps she’d “come around” to knowing herself. When I talked to her, we reminisced and I admitted my past attraction. She replied, “Yeah. I have had a lot of friends like that,” seeming to mean that these things had ALWAYS been one-sided, but low-and-behold, it happened to her all the time! I thought, “Oh, you lovely, clueless thing.” I admire anyone who can be honest about their sexuality. Sounds like you are. I am too, now, though, in the past, I called myself a “lesbian.” Having gotten pressure from a girlfriend to “declare a side” and then having fallem into a “community” of women, I used the label for a bit, but never lost an attraction for men. About 30% of my attractions were toward men back then (now about 45%). So about 8 years ago I decided that I had to be true to myself, which hasn’t always meant that things have been easy.
--elr
07/25 |
here here sam! and what's with this assumption that its a TERRIBLE thing that heterosexual men are turned on by lesbian activities? i guess i can imagine that it gets annoying as a dedicated lesbian -- all the eye rolls and stupid jokes and what have you -- but at the end of day, the only thing worse than the annoyance of being desired is the insult of not being desired. arousal is a kind of compliment. men find women physically attractive and, on a primal level, in the heat of the moment, consider two better than one and three better than two. why aren't women universally turned on by gay male sex? i can tell you that as a predominently straight male, i have always been saddened by the results of my polls on this subject -- most women say they are not turned on by gay male sex. as a younger guy, i found this disappointing. everyone wants to be objectified on some level. sure, its great to be loved for your mind, for who you are and what you do, but there is a lazy appeal to being desired for your body alone ... you don't have to do anything or prove anything to kindle that form of desire. the word "objectify" is used as a pejorative, but sex is an activity between two bodies, two objects, and as a male anyway one wants to have the favor of objectification returned. some women may say they would prefer not to be lusted after, but i suspect in 50 years when their desirability in the marketplace recedes to a pale glow, they will have a different view of annoyance of being desired.
--stj
07/25 |
the venemous comments below, apparently from lesbian readers of Hooksexup, who make up a few percentage points of the Hooksexup readership according to the latest poll, reflect poorly on the lesbian community. i have no doubt that lesbians endure much undue hardship in this country, and i sympathize. however, speaking as though you have some kind of exclusive right to kissing between women than is violated when women who are not exclusively gay kiss one another or scissor fuck or whatever is every bit as closeminded and pig-headed as the attitudes of those who stigmatize lesbians. listen to yourselves for a moment. this is an essay by a woman who describes how powerful and moving it was for her to kiss other women a decade ago. you would rather deny her that pleasure and that life experience because you are so insecure about your identity that you want every homosexual experience accompanied by a contract stating that both individuals commit to a lifetime of homosexual behavior? part of the reason that this issue is necessary -- and thank you Hooksexup for publishing it -- is because small-minded homosexuals like you chose to villify and exclude from your community those who want to fool around with both genders. open your eyes, look outside the walls of your little walled city, you are taking on the characteristics of your own oppressors.
--sam
07/25 |
TD, you are just another pervert. "Freedom", huh? I won't go into a whole feminist rant, but I just want to point out that this is a fake freedom that women have-- the "freedom" to show themselves weak and spineless in public while effectively using each other for the benefit of some nasty guy watching and leering in a corner. Disgusting. That's why I was hoping Hooksexup was going to have the decency to post something about genuine and beautiful lesbian love which women sometimes share freely with each other. But no. Instead we hear from a perfectly typical sorority girl who went on to become a bad writer...
--hm
07/24 |
I think women should hold on to the freedom to engage in mutual sexual displays of affection with other women. Men don't have that freedom. A woman can "experiment" and "explore" with another woman, and not be labeled homosexual. Men simply can't claim to be exploring their sexuality, and they definitely can't do it in front of a party full of people.
--TD
07/24 |
dear Hooksexup. please put the 'bisexuality issue' out of its misery. at this point i'd sooner read Cosmo than slog through yet another sophomore-year sexuality studies term paper masquerading as something worth reading.
--qm
07/24 |
I agree with the sentiment that it's kind of laughable that this writer is reflecting on 1994 like it was 50 years ago. As for the article? What are you trying to say, author? "Even though I'm straight, I fooled around with girls in college. Some people think that's obnoxious. And, now that I think about it, I was a lush who desired male attention. Huh." Is Hooksexup so desperate for articles that this LiveJournal entry deserves to be published?
--EVL
07/24 |
Very well written piece. I don't understand the criticism. I don';t think Sarah was making a case for ten years ago being a radical time socially or politically, but personally--as the late teens/early twenties often are for every generation. The prohbition for men is very much still there--and oppressive, but I sure enjoyed my ocassional romps with men back at that age.
--BL
07/23 |
I too am saddened by the role the female on female kiss has taken on, but for another reason. I'm a guy, and if I get drunk and want to fool around, everyone thinks its repulsive, at least, in my mostly hetero world they do. Women get it all these days. They can be with a woman while still being "serious" with their man. If I do something that turns me on, I'm a pervert, homo or cheater. When she does it it's just experimentation. If she can kiss other people that turn her on, then I should be able to also. So what if it makes her jealous or insecure.
--NDO
07/22 |
i won't even deal with the LUG issue here. I'm more bothered by the idea of the melancholic reflection on a mere ten years back (when you're only thirty) and the reference to 1994 as a time of "revolution" and "chaos." Maybe in other countries and about things that matter, but not a girl-on-girl kiss. It's just funny.
--
07/22 |
great point ML
--kgs
07/22 |
I hate LUGs and I hate BUGs and they deserve each other. Like Hooksexup lately deserving its really bad writers with their really predictable and dull stories with no real insights. Can you get more mainstream and male-centered from here Hooksexup? I think not. I am disappointed.
--
07/22 |
Hmm, this essay is almost worse than the last one.
--
07/22 |
Just, up front, I'm a bisexual woman. That said, I guess my problem with the whole "LUG" thing is that is seems to be reaping the benefits of a community, but not sharing in it's struggles. To make matters worse, it feeds a stereotype that puts other women in a position to be harassed at the very least and at most in a position of physical danger. Behavior like this reinforces the idea that lesbianism (or female bisexuality, even) doesn't have any further validity than to serve as sexual stimulation for men. Isn't there a better way to explore one's sexuality (if that truely is the case) than on display at parties?
--ML
07/21 |
it seems to me that we are all beset by the illusion that when we leave a building, it collapses behind us; when we leave a school, it goes to rot; and when we leave a stage of life or predeliction, it becomes cliched and unoriginal, or uninspiring. this is a healthy case of solipsism -- heck if thought all places and stages of life improved after our departure we would be rather depressed. i enjoyed this piece and liked the personal essay meets light polemic approach, but i suspect that to most people in the middle of a kiss, the cultural references are less important than Hooksexup responses and any number of other factors. i suspect the author may have been more motivated by a desire to intrigue boys, based on what she says, and young women today may be less exclusively interested in male attention than presumed. were i a college girl (i am a thiry something guy) i would see at as a two birds one stone opportunity -- thrash around with a hot chic AND increase the value of my stock in the marketplace, not a bad proposition. people may resent the good fortune of the bi-curious co-ed, unafflicted by the challenges of the exclusively gay or straight, but its hard to argue with her decision making process. as a guy, btw, i would be much more aroused by a woman who was genuinely bi-curious (however threatened by the prospet of my irrelevancy) than one posing as one ... attention mongering can be smelled from a considerable distance.
--ted
07/21 |
I don't understand what your point is, ms writer. Really, I don't. Someone explain please.
--
07/21 |
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